Regalia
Last night I participated in a Mass in remembrance of the patron saint of our parish, St. Brigid of Kildare.
It is Catholic School week. There were 200 elementary
children there accompanied by parents who are mostly in
their thirties. I happen to be 80. We have had seven children, thirteen grandchildren and four great grand-
children. I was asked by a 44 year old why the visiting bishop wore such a funny looking thing on his head. He said his children thought it was stupid; putting it on and taking it off and putting it on. And what about the funny looking red cap under it.
I went to Google and searched MITRE. The Catholic encyclopedia has all the information about mitres. The best guess is they got into use in the year 1000.
Since they are a vestige of Roman royalty and have no
connection to Jesus or that period of history the Catholic church would be doing itself a favor to get rid of them.
You'd be surprised, most
You'd be surprised, most traditionalists grew up post-Vatican II.
It's funny, at least to me,
It's funny, at least to me, how definitions are used, abused and manipulated to suit different purposes. The first Christmas my wife and I had together we had to decide whether to go back to our home town and families or "do our own thing". We decided to begin our own "traditions(s). Much of it was in preserving our family ways, but "we" took ownership or responsibility, what ever you might want to call it. We added some unique(to us) elements which grew over the years -our tree is a mess of kid's crafts, dog hair, 'retainers', 'brought homes' from trips(all and each with value,and meaning to us). We also do our family 'rituals'. When our now adult children are with us we make it clear that we don't want to impose on them, but they insist we do it the way we always did, and they share, revive for a moment their evolving childhood and "sense" again, "experience" for a moment, the positives of their lives with us, their "tradition".
Somehow, needing to go the google, or wickapaedia to find out the meaning or purpose of the "mitre" and its ritual "put on" and "take off" and to call it part of our RC tradition is symptomatic of something.
Reading Aloysius' post about the kids also brought back memories. Many years ago, back in the early '60s I served on the alter for several ordinations, even way back then, I found the Mitre, the red-tam under it and the doffing/restoring meaningless and somewhat ridiculous (and I was trying to understand then). I have visions of a Victorian age Catholic kid having the same experience; and then again maybe a sixteenth century son or daughter of the church chuckeling behind his or her parents wondering what the old guy was up to. I guess that is the real meaning of tradition.
The fact that bishop's
The fact that bishop's regalia has changed dramatically over the past 30+ years and those changes seem to be ongoing, I'd suggest what you have called "the real meaning of traditon" has nothing to do with tradition or Tradition. The things you point to are nothing but incidentals. The bishop I worked for drove a small car, himself, wore a ball cap and sport shirt. I supposed he wore the black pants because that's what he had. I think there's an element of hysteria here that wants to stereotype all bishops in the model of those few who do need a cape to cover a horses ass.
Just looked up "tradition"
Just looked up "tradition" in the dictionary and the "Miter" article in the Catholic Encyclopaedia. It may be "incidental" as 123bow contends but it certainly seems to me to fit the definition of "tradition" plus. Complex too. Maybe there is a distinction between "meaningful tradition", "meaningless tradition" and then subdivided into "to whom".
I knew one "traditional"
I knew one "traditional" priest who always did a good job of teaching the difference between "tradition" and "Tradition."
My father used to say it
My father used to say it takes a pretty smart guy to seperate the peppercorns from the rat turds.
Medieval
Medieval clutter!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just love TRIVIA like the origin of the mitre, Some bishops come with a Mercedes and in years to come we will wonder where that tradition comes from. I wonder how many bishops took Greyhound or rapid transit to the last confirmation. I am personally more interested in people who serve in soup kitchens. Which Pope named himself 'Servus Servorun Dei'
Best dressed!!!! The bishops
Best dressed!!!!
The bishops of the american church are the best dressed men in the USA [or am I thinking 'most expensively' dressed].They compete very well with female movie stars --it's a toss up! Not only are they well dressed but they live in homes that compete with the gentlemen on top 500 on the Forbes list. How much does a monsignor outfit cost?Ten to twenty? When I see a Bishop travel with his own vestments I am reminded of a pool shark I knew as a boy, who always carried his own pool cue. Thank God they don't drive Hummers or Mercedes's
I teach a religious
I teach a religious education class of seventh grade public school children; eleven boys, four girls. When the assistant parish priest, age 28, visited the class they wanted to know why he wears black clothes, if he gets lonely not being married and when the church will have women priests.
These students are ages 12/13. Their parents want/hope they will practice the Catholic faith when they become adults. I'm sure most of them will if the Church goes from a feudal structure to a democratic structure by the time they are adults.
The assistant parish priest connected with them when he told them about his 2006 red Solara and his favorite video games. He did not connect on his answers to their questions.
Dear Starlight~ We must be
Dear Starlight~ We must be almost half way there, because the "feudal" or as I call it the "medieval" model is dead, well almost. But it is fighting viciously for its life. I doubt though that there will ever be a "democratic" structure per se. That doesn't bother me though.
There is, I am hopeful, a model for a few thousand more years that recognizes that Christ is not just "above us" in the hierarchy but within us and around us in in every person we meet(and I mean every person).
The "gate-keepers" think that they are keeping out the perverted gays, lesbians, women and cafeteria catholics. Maybe when they realize that it's really the Holy Spirit Who's being kept out things will change.
This is an extremely simple,
This is an extremely simple, but important comment. Kids get to the heart of the matter so much faster than we do! They see past all our fancy rationalizations, and "history", as a "reason for things" does not impress them much. Unfortunately, the age of which the writer is speaking (12/13) is the age at which we begin to lose young adolescents, who are subject to a variety of pressures, especially in public schools. (For the Catholic School kids the "pressures" simply come later.)
Everyone knows what the "issues" are (they have been discussed forever here.) Young people in the Church become aware of them, too; they are not blind. Despite what others say about "Young people devoted to the Church" that is a relatively small number compared to those aware.
Some say that the Church has "written off" North America and doesn't care. Rome will go for Africa and South America where she can maintain her absolute authority. But the geo-political world is changing. I doubt if anyone can do that for long. Freedom is a child of the Holy Spirit, built into every human soul.
No, I defended it as a
No, I defended it as a commonly accesible source, not as a particularly good source. In this case there is a better source, namely the 'non-existent' article I linked to.
But yes, the cap the became the miter has its remote origins in the Roman court, but as it exists it devloped under Christianity, circa 1000 AD. (As the author noted above.)
Remote origins, here today?
Remote origins, here today?
That's not my understanding.
And remote is a matter of perspective, isn't it? The ultimate point is that this piece of ecclesiastical garb--along with lots of others--is rooted in garb worn by imperial officals of the Roman court. As Gibbon says, when Rome fell, it remained alive with all its imperial structures in one place: the RC church.
To prescind from the historical argument, think a moment about the shape of the cap and the significance of wearing a higher, bigger hat than anyone around you. Any ah-ha recognitions come to mind when you think of it in those symbolic terms?
Did Jesus sport a miter? Would he have done so, do you imagine?
As I type all of this, I'm reminded of a very interesting book my partner has, given him by his two Benedictine aunts. It's a loving but tell-all memoir of each sister in their community for generations back.
One was known for, what shall we call it, competitive dressing syndrome. When the abbess had a high headdress, this sister would find some way to devise a slightly higher one for herself. When the abbess wore a big watch, this sister would suddenly appear with a slightly bigger one. To elevate herself just above the abbess, she would add height to her heels.
Methinks that the old boys who rule us have spent a mighty lot of time and effort in trying to refine their clothes to make themselves appear more than a little elevated and set apart from the common herd. Sad to say, sometimes when people do that, they do stand out. But they do so by looking a bit silly.
William D. Lindsey
Bill, A always was under the
Bill,
A always was under the impression that the Scrirtural foundation for ecclesiastical garb is found in I Cor. 23, "We honor the members we consider less honerable by clothing them with greater care." Won't comment on what parts of the body Paul was referring to, but we know who, in the present church, have proven themselves "less honerable."
Great comment, Bob. I like
Great comment, Bob. I like your biblically based faith.
William D. Lindsey
The Mitre has its origins in
The Mitre has its origins in the Church, several centuries after the fall of Rome. It is then, part of Catholic culture, which we would be doing no favors to anyone by removing.
On the other hand ... There
On the other hand ...
There was a Young Person of Crete,
Whose toilette was far from complete;
She dressed in a sack,
Spickle-speckled with black,
That ombliferous person of Crete.
The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy
"So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!" (2Cor 5)
I am old enough to remember
I am old enough to remember wearing a kleenex on my head because I had to cover my hair.
Doesn't Jesus talk about the Pharisees who wear long tassels etc but care not for the widow and orphan?
As tired as I was tonight I
As tired as I was tonight I read your link. I really like that you give us links and would like you to explain how you do it. I have both yahoo and google toolbars and can't figure this out.
But I'm reading this whole thing and all the do's and don'ts on when and how the various mitres are to be worn and I find myself getting worn by the rules.
The sad thing for me is I can see how I will read the directions for some video games and do something similar. I am a Zelda freak and freely admit I own all the Nintendo systems. In the dark of the night I question whether any of this is meaningful. I mean does God really care that I can finish Zelda II in 12 hours? Then I think does God really care which Mitre a bishop uses in a given ceremony when no one in the pews knows if he is really wearing the right Mitre? And then I think, I care if I can finish Zelda II in twelve hours maybe that's what counts--at least for me.
Except I'm just me caring about me. Bishops in their mitres should care about something more than their mitres. If the laity doesn't get it, and based on your link, I certainly didn't get it, then what's it all about? Ego and pride? That's what some of my gaming is really about--ego and pride. Speaking of which, I supposedly held the national record for elapsed time for Final Fantasy II. Not bad for a 'boomer'
links are put in using < a
links are put in using < a href="http://your web site here" >your text here < /a > without the spaces around the <> symbols.
Really, here today? Hinging
Really, here today? Hinging Catholic culture on retention of the miter?
I had thought the miter was a vestige of Roman imperial garb. I believe on another thread that you have recommended Wikipedia to us as a good source of information. Perhaps you'd like to chek out what it has to say about the origins of the miter. It states, "The camelaucum or καμιλαÏκιον, the headdress both the Western mitre and the Papal tiara stem from, was originally a cap used by officials of the Imperial Byzantine court. In the late Empire it developed into the closed type of Imperial crown."
William D. Lindsey
And here all the time I
And here all the time I thought is was a version of a dunce cap. Guess I's back in the corner again.
I prefer a Living Faith of
I prefer a Living Faith of the dead, than a Dead faith of the living.
Often, people who call themselves tradionalists, want things to be as when they were children, things they grew up with . . .
Love, John
See my website: Sacred Quest at www.torchlake.com/poetman