Somethin's happenin' here.
Priests and pastors are revolting.
Dec, '02 58 priests call for the removal of Bernard Cardinal Law based on his response to the sexual abuse of children.
Aug.,'03 163 priests send an open letter to Bishop Wilton Gregory of Milwaukee calling for optional celibacy. This letter is later endorsed by a number of priests in Rochester NY
Dec.,'03 23 priests of the Chicago diocese write an open letter to the church hiercrchy contemning as vile and toxic the language used about gay people in official church documents.
Dec.,'03 190 priests of the Rockville Center diocese publish a letter to Bishop William F. Murphy critical of his management of the diocese.
An anonymous letter is circulated in the New York archdiocese blaming Joseph
Cardinal Egan for low priest morale and calling for a vote of no-confidence.
Feb.,'06 19 priest of the diocese of Quebec write a letter denouncing the Vatican documewnt on gay priests.
What's your take on what's going on?
'And when they came for me
'And when they came for me there was no one left to speak out for me."
--Niemoller
"Blight on the Blossom": the
"Blight on the Blossom": the disconnect is theological. How does it connect?
The theology of Original Sin (sex!)and Trinity Godhead are of ancient development in Roman Catholicism and other Christian denominations. It seems that more than any other doctrine these have defined the character of theological development (patriarchal control). It also seems that these theological doctrines are still taught and that they still underpin the theology of Church (ecclesiology) and theology (fundamental) of laity/Church relationship. In practice, the Second Vatican Council and its recognition of the evolutionary worldview and need for new “analysis and synthesis� have not changed Church theology or the reality.
I will speak from my personal experience. My consciousness of woman, man, sin and sex was definitively characterized by the catechism lessons of my early childhood. Early learned theology conditioned all my thinking after that for I was totally receptive to literal acceptance of what I was taught.
The very first catechism lesson I remember distinctly; it took place in the sacristy and the priest taught it, not the nuns who did the teaching after that. This was the lesson: Eve persuaded Adam to take a bite of the apple which God had forbidden, and their disobedience caused all evil, which is now in the form of work, sweat, sin and rejection. Then we were taught about Redemption and God, how God The Father begot God The Son (who redeemed us) and that the Love between The Father and The Son is The Holy Spirit who continues to be with us. Man is given authority over woman. God is male, not female, and because of the first sin (macula) of Eve, woman isn’t in the Godhead and we continue to suffer the consequences. Sex and Original Sin are “causally� linked. The official alienation of woman in Church from priesthood and from roles of responsibility are “theologically reasoned�.
Is there now or will there ever be any change in fundamental theology? It is my sense that except Church changes this theology and its ancient presumptions of sex-based original sin, it will hold to its culture of alienating women (and itself from the people). The Second Vatican Council was very insightful in calling for a new “analysis and synthesis� of theology based not on old fixations but in evolutionary consciousness. Please help me on this.
"Is there now or will there
"Is there now or will there ever be any change in fundamental theology?"
>> The Church will of course never change its fundamental theology. This is because the Church receives Truth, all heretics schismatics and apostates attempt to invent it. The heretics change it every week or two. Do you know what is required to establish a new Protestant or other schismatic denomination? Two things: a coffee pot and a "change in fundamental theology".
"It is my sense that except Church changes this theology and its ancient presumptions of sex-based original sin, it will hold to its culture of alienating women (and itself from the people)."
>>To the contrary. Because the Church will never change its revealed Truth concerning Original Sin (has nothing to do with sex or an apple, btw), the theologically illiterate who imagine that Original Sin has anything whatsoever to do with either sex or apples, will eventually turn and be healed, receiving true doctrine which saves, as opposed to false doctrine which tickles the ears of the self-deluded.
"The Second Vatican Council was very insightful in calling for a new “analysis and synthesis� of theology based not on old fixations but in evolutionary consciousness".
>>>The Second Vatican Council never called for "a new analysis and synthesis based not on old fixations but in evolutionary consciousness." You have invented this notion out of thin air. It doesn't come from the Council.
Please help me on this.
>>Buy the Catechism. Read it.
Wonderful! Somebody--I think
Wonderful! Somebody--I think it was Augustine, but I'm not really sure--reinforced the connection between sex and original sin by postulating that it was passed from generation to generation in SEMEN. Now that it is possible to create embryos without the benefit of semen, we could have thousands, millions of immaculate conceptions running around with no concupiscence and maybe they can make some changes.
But my take on the list is that either personal courage or a history of democracy or common decency or pure feduppedness has motivated these priests to stand up and be counted. Not good for the career, but very good, I think, for the soul.
Maybe they are just tired of
Maybe they are just tired of being caught between Peter's rock and theological hard places.
You have a wonderful way
You have a wonderful way with words!:-)
No need to worry. "except
No need to worry. "except Church changes this theology and its ancient presumptions of sex-based original sin" is an incorrect statement of the teaching on original sin. Sex was never mentioned or implied. Disobedience, pride, greed were.
You are of course right,
You are of course right, except that Eve's female sex cannot be disconnected from her person and the implied refuge Adam (the victim?) took as being mislead by her invitation. Smacks of a blame game. And don't victims of sex abuse often keep silence because of having a sense that they were in some way the cause of their own abuse?
I think you are reading into
I think you are reading into the Adam and Eve story something that was never there. In the story neither Adam nor Eve get away with the sin of pride that caused them to be evicted from the garden and they shared equally in the punishment of having to earn what they ate by the sweat of their brow and, ultimately, death.
One could indict the institutional bureaucracy for sex discrimination but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a valid basis for it in scripture or in the authentic teaching of The Church (which is not the same as the institutional bureaucracy).
ADDENDUM; Oct. 24, 2006 30
ADDENDUM;
Oct. 24, 2006 30 French priests sign an open letter to Pope Benedict warning against the reintroduction of the Latin Mass.
Rant and Rave will be on
Rant and Rave will be on your case for posting that. You know those French priests are Catholic in name only. You know they're heretics. You know they've been disloyal to the pope for generations. You know blah, blah, blah, blah. They're probably those French Worker Priests.
That is a new move for Europeans. "They say" the main reason we get so much crap from Rome is because we listen. Everybody else just ignores them. Like the African priests with one or more wives. Unlike the US clergy with their "housekeepers".
Who's R&R when he's at home
Who's R&R when he's at home and what is he to Hecuba?
Hi Rant here (or is it Rave,
Hi Rant here (or is it Rave, I can't keep us straight). It is intresting that the French bishops are so worried about giving conservatives a bone here. Although, if I understand the situation correctly, the concern is partially driven by the fact that there are traditional institutes in France that may be allowed to operate separate from the diocesean bishops, hence some concern for undermining the authority of the bishop in his diocese.
Who's out to get me and why
Who's out to get me and why should I care?
I would say since '02' the
I would say since '02' the winds they are ablowin' and the rowers are getting tired of rowing against the tide and the winds.
... And it still ain't
... And it still ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there,
And He's tellin' me I got to beware.
Everybody STOP
Listen, what's that sound
Everybody look what's goin'round ...
The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy
"So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you." (Luke 11:9)
Dr. McCoy: I was worried
Dr. McCoy:
I was worried about you. I hadn't come across a post from you since you went out of town. I'm so glad to find you. I hope you are okay.
And, you've quoted one of my favorite songs. Gives me a clue to your probable age.
Take good care of yourself.
Kate
P.S. I'm in deep deficit when it comes to making a visit to the Anglican church. Corresponding with an Anglican priest is as close as I can get right now.
Thank you Kate. I am quite
Thank you Kate. I am quite well and busy with work and life's abundant and changing circumstances; "God is good all the time!" (Remember that from your Anglican days?) I trust that you, too, are well.
God's peace,
e+
The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy
"So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you." (Luke 11:9)
Dr. McCOy: I'm glad to hear
Dr. McCOy:
I'm glad to hear you are well. I'm dealing with a sprained ankle, but the healing is progressing. I took a shower for the first time in nine days today, so I must say, thanks be to God.
There are many things I miss about the Anglican church. The Hymnal, the way the Psalms are chanted, but what I miss the most is the greeting and response that starts at the Easter Vigil: Alleluia, Christ is risen; The Lord is risen indeed, Alleluia. I just crave to hear it and participate in it. If I didn't sing in a choir, I could sneak away to an Episcopal church for the Vigil, but I refuse to give my choir director (an Episcopalian, naturally) a coronary.
It's nice to chat with you.
Kate
Kate. that is so thoughtful
Kate. that is so thoughtful of you! :) You are wonderful! Hope your ankle heals quickly!! (Wow--9 days without a shower``must have been so difficult``glad that part is over for you!) Take care of yourself! :) Love, Star
Do I hear a duet in the
Do I hear a duet in the offing?
Battle lines bein' drawn...
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong..
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH Written
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
Written by Stephen Stills
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
You can see the 1967 promo video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJV44YV69z0
Ahh ...those were the days!
The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy
"So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you." (Luke 11:9)
If there's anything I
If there's anything I approve of it's thoroughness.
I had occasion to Google
I had occasion to Google Kellog, Brown and Root yesterday. (Halliburton subsidiary.) On Wikipedia I found this reference to a camp they were building "in an unknown location" "to hold 10,000 'undesirables'". That did give me a few chills.