Bishop's morning after.........action
It's the morning after and something has to be done about abortion. excommunication and sacramental restrictions do nothing. Let's have a life movement that concentrates on life,adoption and love. Now that the election is almost over and there is either a worsening or improvement in the abortion discussion. We should proceed:
1] I would like to see the US bishops issue a little statement. If the Supreme court is as friendly as it could well be for years to come, the bishops might ask for a readdressing of Roe v Wade now.
2] The other position that I would demand immediately is that since most specialist referrals have to be made by the woman's doctor, and since most doctors in the event of a pregnancy,refer a woman to a gynochologist, that the same action or referral must be made to an abortionist. Such a referral would demand discussion between the doctor and the patient.This action would take abortion back from the unmarked offices.
3] Prayers and liturgy should be a part of the movement and there are hundreds of different ways of accomplishing this.
4] A billion dollars is sitting out there waiting to be donated by millions of life enthusiasts who are Catholic. That is not even considering the potential donations from other Christian denominations and non denominationalists. The fund would enable millions who want to adopt to do so even at a profit to the fund.
An approach like this will not put catholic politicians inside a fence.
Do you think the bishops could swallow this morning after pill?
Word or example? COL55 is
Word or example? COL55 is that what you are asking?
While it is important for the bishops to speak it is more important for them to lead by example. Really Christ used both but perhaps the most important lessons He taught were when He accepted the fact that there is evil in the world.The oracles of ancient Greece had no authority. A bishop is not much better than an oracle if he relies on speaking only.
COL55! Beware of old
COL55!
Beware of old hippies bearing answers! Question their motives and intelligence!
ANSWER ON ALL COUNTS= 1.THRU 5. SELF AGGRANDIZEMENT THRU MONEY AND POWER
GOD LOVES US ALL! AND SO DO I!
Humbly.
James Edward
... because they are
... because they are megalomaniacs of the worst kind: Until the Internet appeared, the fastest way of communicating was the Inquisition ("Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith"), and all those weird men were sending each other crazy messages in Latin when covering up for the protection of their interests in blatant violation of the countries' laws. Now with the Internet and everybody sharing what they know, the powers are swifting... and the people are finally figuring out that it was all a scum from the moment they put Jesus to death after he mentioned that his mom was no longer a virgin...
Archbishop George's
Archbishop George's statement indicates that the bishops are still into condemnation and although there were some positives in the statement the bishops are still not into life and love and birth. They are not willing to put their money where their mouthes are. The bishops' job is to lead all people to a place where abortion is unacceptable.It will always be available. I'd rather be the one who changes hearts than the one who changes laws.
The bishops can do this by asking Obama for a committment to reduce abortions and he said,probably as a campaign position,that he would do this.
What we need is a national Life and Adoption center. This is something visible, and a silent witness to the sanctity of life. For a southern diocese to tell someone that they have no access to adoptions and refer someone to an outside agency that gladly accepted twenty thousand dollars as a down payment to work on an adoption is a disappointment to me.
Yea sevenup~ I would be
Yea sevenup~ I would be exstatic if the Bishops took an unyielding stand with Obama to live up to his commitment to do just that. Even as a non-USA'er I think it would have a signficant impact throughout the world. Their 'stand' should be: let's work together to eliminate the causes. We will not relent in our moral stance regarding abortion and that is why we will devote all our efforts to eliminating the causes, work with you, assess you, as you assess and work with us.
The Bishops have come out
The Bishops have come out more strongly. I hope it is not too little too late. If Obama does what he said he would do, we are in for a truly horrible advance in the Culture of Death. Here is an encouraging article on the Bishops, titled:
Catholic bishops plan to forcefully confront Obama:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/religion/chi-081111bishops,0,615284.story
Thomas
Thomas the trouble with what
Thomas the trouble with what you say is that coming out strong does not entail words at all. Talk is cheap and that can be said for bishop talk too. Go to my initial proposal and you'll see that there are other things the bishops can do besides talk. Abortion is unacceptable and inaction by the bishops is unacceptable. Thomas everything the bishops say and promote is not infallable and sometimes it's not even sensible
Some US Catholic bishops did
Some US Catholic bishops did everything but endorse John McCain and the Republican party. Considering the last eight years under George Bush, that support is very hard to understand.
Consider that George Bush's government lied so they could invade Iraq. How many Iraqis, as well as American soldiers have been killed there? Bush put unqualified people into positions of power and the result was the poor government response to the disaster in New Orleans. George Bush's strategists used lies about John McCain to beat him in 2000 and his allies used "Swift Boating" to get him elected in 2004. I could continue by talking about torture, holding innocent people in prison, the widening gap between rich and poor, etc.
George Bush and the Republican Party have done a lot of damage. John McCain is a member of the same party and his advisors appeared ready to make the same mistakes. Have the Catholic bishops spoken out about the un-Christian record of the Republicans? Do they forget that Jesus spoke out about the hypocracy and lies of the leaders of his time?
Barack Obama seems to live the commandment to "love your neighbour as yourself". He will work hard to spread love and prosperity within the US and around the world. He will be successful partly because he understands God's Word better than George Bush.
Many Christians voted for Barack Obama because they know he will be a good leader (using the Christian meaning of good). Will the Catholic bishops consider that perhaps voters for Obama were inspired by God? Will they change their minds about who to support if Barack Obama makes a positive impact on the world?
Chris Francis
London, Ontario, Canada
Chris, most of the bishops
Chris, most of the bishops are so wrapped up in their own self serving egocentric natures that it will never occur to them that God created the outcome of the election.
Fact is, God created the outcome of the election. God in effect slapped the bishops in the face and told them they backed the wrong candidate. Do any of them have the humility to recognize the action of the Holy Spirit. So far, none have stepped forward. So far, all they have done is condemn catholic laity who voted for Obama. How dare we do God's will, when it wasnt what THEY wanted. Not one of them has recognized the hand of God in the outcome.
Let there be no doubt ... God created the outcome of the election. He used the voters, but God created the outcome. Does anyone with even an ounce of faith doubt for a moment that if God wanted McCain in the presidency, that McCain would now be the president elect.
As far as I'm concerned, this is one more incident that demonstrates to us that the bishops are serving a god, the question is, which one?
I would say, though, that
I would say, though, that most Catholic bishops did not endorse either candidate. It was only the ones obsessed with what a candidate says about abortion who went to extremes. I doubt that they could be appeased by anything Obama does. Even if one year no women in the US chose to have abortions, without Roe v. Wade being rescinded, those bishops will not be happy.
I am in favor of that being
I am in favor of that being a priority from your point of view too. There are federal funds for that though especially for the very young mothers especially for further education [there are stories of young people getting pregnant for the free tuition--maybe it is only rumour] The thrust of my suggestion is that the bishops are hell bent on condemnation and that does not work. The laity could come across for this with an ounce or two of national leadership. Just an ounce or two
Regarding #1 and #2: Roe v.
Regarding #1 and #2:
Roe v. Wade did more than just make abortion legal. It asserted that the government has no business making medical decisions for adults. It is extremely unlikely that it would ever be overturned.
It is not only not necessary to go to a doctor to have a pregnancy confirmed, but there is no medical reason why an abortion clinic would require a referral from another physician. In fact, there are doctors who will under no circumstances ever refer a patient to an abortion clinic even if the patient wants a referral. If referrals are mandated by government, following the example of HMO's, it is just as likely that the result would be that gynecologists must give maternity patients information regarding abortion.
On the other hand, it might be possible to mandate that no abortion be performed unless the mother has given her approval subsequent to being shown an ultrasound of her child--patient's right to know.
I agree with you on your
I agree with you on your point about the referreals but I still think that asking for a new decision or a new hearing could sharpen some issues and while it might or probably would not be overturned the bishops can use it as a teaching point. It would make it clear that they are not accepting it. This activity is better than the practice of condemnation. The knowledge of the surviveability of the fetus has changed nad the politics have changed slightly. You bring up a good point about the HMO's. The changes that may be brought about by the new administration will demand a lot of HMO,s and that can have a big effect on referring pregnancies. I'm not giving answers here just raising the discussion on a different level.
When all is said and done it is society that must change and positive actions are the best way to change that.
I think the bishops are so
I think the bishops are so used to operating in an authoritarian power structure that they fail to grasp that the born citizen in a democracy has power also. They seem to think that people can be forced to make choices by the government that they have elected when in reality the government has been elected because it confirms the preferences of the majority of its citizens. Even then, in this particular democracy, there is protection from tyranny by the majority over the individual, which gives prominence to individual liberty.
The individual woman who is choosing to have an abortion is exercising a right of individual liberty, while the rights of the individual whose life she is extinguishing are ignored. This is because only born people are citizens. The unborn are totally at the mercy of their mothers. If this fact were accepted, then the obvious answer to the abortion situation would be to convince women that abortion is wrong. This is where the effort must go, in my opinion.
That abortion is legal is the result of centuries of oppression of women because they bear children. A woman's obligations with regard to childbearing and childrearing have been used as reasons to deprive her of opportunities and power in society. In order for women to overcome this discrimination, it was necessary for them to take the ultimate power over their reproductive activities.
In recent decades, there has been an improvement in women's status. There has also been greater involvement of men in the childrearing and childbirthing, if not childbearing. Compared to the 1970's, there is greater objection to abortion among women. It is no longer seen as beneficial to individual women, only to women as a group in that it's being legally available makes any argument that women cannot take roles in society beyond wife and mother invalid.
The reason an unmarried woman chooses abortion, however, is most likely not ideological. I think it is the result of low self-image, which is the same reason she finds herself pregnant when she does not have the personal or financial resources to be a parent. On the other hand, when a married couple chooses to abort a child for financial reasons, we should all be concerned, especially the bishops of the United States, if their answer to that abortion is simply to make it illegal.
I agree that now, and not election time, is when bishops should be talking about the immorality of preventing life from following its natural course. They could start by strongly objecting to the use of human embryos for scientific experimentation based on these embryos being individual human beings even if they are not citizens.
It seems to me that it is more appropriate to hold the government accountable for things over which it has direct control, such as funding experimentation that destroys human embryos, than over choices individual citizens are making. Perhaps, some compromises could be make that would allow only the use of currently frozen embryos, but only fund stem cell research that does not use embryos and that definitively outlaws the use of embryos that have not yet been created, so that there would be no doubt left that the frozen embryos are a unique situation and that human embryos are otherwise inappropriate for use as a medical resource.
I'd be surprised if the
I'd be surprised if the bishops did anything interesting about life-They will talk,forbid,and refuse the sacraments but doing something positive is out of their realm.
My first word on this topic was read 272 times so far and I appreciate that but I don't see anything that will change the landscape.Just tonight I opened a new address celticfourlife@yahoo.com. I want more ideas and methods of reaching the bishops. I want emails,names,addresses and ideas. I'd like signatures.
There is an opportunity here for action and ecumenism that will increase in everyone appreciation for life and love. There is possibility for changing the national mentality and that's the way to decrease the numbers of abortions. Of course the death penalty and war mortality is part of our teaching,but there are a thousand or more abortions per hour,and each life made with the same care as the Infant of Christmas.
Talking the talk is spirituality on the cheap. Words are cheap. Condemnation of politicians is cheap.There has been too much cheap stuff already. The bishops need to get on with it.
I think the most important
I think the most important thing the bishops can do is to stop alienating those abortion opponents who are against making abortion illegal. I consider it possible that many people have turned deaf ear to the Catholic Church's teachings regarding the sanctity of life simply because of this authoritarian posturing.
How is it possible for someone like you or me to defend that teaching when at the next turn people encounter a bishop who is blocking the door to the church and declaring them unfit for communion? It virtually undermines the validity of everything that you or I might have presented in that it makes what we say seem to be a deception intended to sucker people into doing the will of the Church, which intends to use them to enhance its power, instead of the will of God who loves them.
I think that #4 should be
I think that #4 should be given priority, but not for just adoption. I think the idea of a monetary fund in the Church to help single women who need financial help who are pregnant is a great idea. The Church needs to walk the walk with this pregnant person and help her financially to bring this child up in a healthy environment, especially if she has been abandoned by the father. It just doesn't cut it to say you are against abortion but do nothing else. Donate to such a fund.
She will need financial assistance. She'll need a babysitter so that she can go to work and that cost money or to continue in school, and that cost money too. Such a fund is greatly needed to aide those who are poor or have been abandoned by their families.
Can someone please tell me,
Can someone please tell me, why is is so important for the Roman Catholic Church to FORCE its "morality" on the entire country?
Can someone tell me why it is so important that the entire United States population be FORCED to live in slavery to Catholic rules and morality?
Can someone tell me why it is so important to SHOVE catholicism down EVERYONE's throats, whether they want it or not?
Why am I asking these questions? Unless one was in a coma for the last month, that was exactly what the Bishops were attempting to do throughout the election - SHOVE THEIR VERSION OF CATHOLICISM DOWN THE EVERYONES THROATS.
Why is that so important?
Interesting historical examples that need to be pondered:
Jesus lead by example and his flock grew - immensely. The Jewish priests shoved their brand of righteousness down the throats of the jewish people, and the jewish people walked away in droves.
It probably never occurred to those who are so intent on shoving their brand of righteousness down the throats of others, (in the name of [their]god of course) that Jesus did not say, go and beat everyone in the world into submission to your will no matter what it takes. The teaching was "spread the good news", not beat the life out of those who dont agree with you.
And the leadership wonders why catholics are leaving the church in such great numbers.