No more Yahweh in liturgical music

I have posted a retraction of my position here under a new thread titled Nero, Live! It came to my attention that this was done at the request of Jewish authorities to honor the tradition of keeping this name silent. I will respect this request in advance of any verification that may emerge. I have changed my screen name as a result of a long anticipated upgrade in connectivity appliances.
I tender my apologies to the relevant church authorities on this particular issue.

Sainthood for John XXIII !!!

We have pictures of Yahweh?

I'm just relating it to the picture conflict over the cartoons of Allah

And let's remember that Jesus was Jewish and that we (Christians) cannot divorce ourselves from our Jewish Tradition. To do so is to deny who we are, how we have come to our understanding of God. God is "ineffable" for Christians too.

Does that mean we can wear yamacas in mass now to cover up our bald spots?

What bald spots? Col55 I always thought you were a Ms.

I'm happy with who I am, including my mostly bald head; I feel no compulsion to cover it. Yamacas seem like a big nuisance to me.

With all due respect, Sylvester, YHWH, is more in keeping with our Jewish Tradition.

Not that the Vatican should be insensitive to Jews, but one might argue that Yaweh derives from the Jewish name for God, but is not the same thing--the term Yaweh belongs to Christianity, while YHWH is its Jewish origin. I am having a little trouble with what appears to be a tendency on the part of parts of the Vatican to want to live in the past and deny the reality of the world between the time they believe was most holy and the present.

Marie R., yours is an interesting point, and I think may just point out my probable ignorance on the history of the word. I've been interested in all the comments on here, especially the different spellings used, which suggest to me that everyone knows more history on this than I do.

I certainly can see what you're saying about parts of the vatican wanting to live in the past. At the same time, I'm wondering if this is actually wanting to live in the more distant past, tying us together with the Jewish people in a part of religious tradition that is respectful of our shared history. What the Vatican is referring to, actually, is public worship rather than private, after all, so the songs that have helped many of us become familiar with God still are part of our lives outside public worship. I think that might be a good approach, but then again, I'll hang on here to learn more about the word and the history.

There is something in me that likes to repeat the phrase, "the unspoken name of the God of Israel" that touches me deeply right now.

AnnieO, my personal history with this word goes back to Lutheran parochial school where it's origins were explained to us and we were taught that it was the best we humans could do to convey the transcendence of God. It was considered a respectful way of witnessing to God's greatness. Therefore, when I first encountered this song, not many years ago, the Yaweh was more than just a term of endearment. It indicated that even though God was so beyond us, he was with us on a personal level. I think changing the word would change what the song is conveying.

Lutherans are quite liturgically traditional, so that if using Yaweh was OK with them, it makes me think that this newfound Catholic concern about it has more to do with people rejecting the things that entered Catholic liturgical practice from Protestant churches than they are about God's or Jewish sensibilities.

I was hoping to get sevenup to smile at me with something of the 'unpictured face of the God of Israel', but, alas, it never happens...

My "Lutheran pictures of Yahweh" remark actually reminds me to say that I don't think of the pictures of God the Father as Yahweh at all. In my own parochial school background, I don't remember Yahweh at all, or perhaps in passing; I think Yahweh was turned into God the Father very quickly. I think that's part of what you were saying about the sense of the word "Yahweh" being different in Jewish and Christian traditions, and the lutheran understanding staying closer to Jewish tradition perhaps. "Yahweh" to me being a deeper understanding of God the Father to be less judging and more healing, and being 're-claimed' as such post-V2. I think you are right that this vatican action may be more a slam on the liberalizing influence, seen as protestantism by the vatican, than anything about sensitivity to the Jewish tradition. I'm not sure I will ever be other than of "mixed" mind and heart, but, anyhow, I do appreciate the refinement you brought to my thinking on this topic.

Now, that's interesting too...I would never have thought of a protestant connection, but now I can see that. (are there pictures of a Lutheran Yahweh?) :-)

Thank you Sylvester, and Little Bear, I think you are both right. it is about control and fear of women, certainly a desire to erase any feminine qualities in "The One Who Cannot Be Named".

THE "TWO GODS" of SCRIPTURES:

"The Abrahamic Tradition is about One God, but there are two distinct strands of theological representation in Scriptures (Old Testament) that are very different in their emphasis — in fact they are so different in their contrast that they seem to be about two different gods.

"Perhaps this is Scripture’s way of giving us to understand that like humans, God has two different personalities in the way “he� behaves toward humankind. “God made man to his likeness, male and female he made them�, Genesis says.

There is the “Taskmaster God� and then there is “The Parent God�. The Taskmaster God is the God of rules and regulations, of commandments, of Testament and Contract, in the tradition of the priestly, patriarchal strand of theology. Then there is the Parent God of trust, of hope and love, of persuasion and example, of openness and Covenant, in the tradition of the Yahwist, the maternal strand of theology.

"The Priestly God is harshly rational, demanding in expectation and heavy-handed in style. The Patriarch is the God of the male dominant personality, the God of prescript. The Yahwist God is forgiving, slow to anger, an open Communicator, expecting return only as (S)he gives, namely, love and fidelity. The Maternal is the way of wisdom, of feminine personality, not dominant but always sympathetic and tolerant. Cold facts and hard reason are the logic of the God of Patriarchy. Dialogical, loving and trusting is the way of the Maternal God. Reason, tough logic, is the mind of Patriarchy. Faith, love and gentleness are the mind of the Mother. “Survival of the fittest� is the hard sentiment of the male god; whereas, fidelity and the reciprocal relationship of love is the equalizing way of the female god.

"SUMMARY: Male/female, priestly/Yahwist are unitary and complementary aspects of godly, quantum-electric consciousness, which require holistic and mutual sensitivity. Cultural animus contrasting these aspects suggests conflicted divinity as if two incompatible facets exist in God. Cultural alienation, caused by idolatrous presumptions of divinely preferred male sex, prejudices moral insight, traumatizes human relationships and does violence to spiritual and material necessity. Christians have inherited a traumatized consciousness, which advances a theology premised in misdirection."

[From THE POSSIBLE JOURNEY, (Sylvester L Steffen) www.authorhouse.com, pp 11-13]

Actually, Little Bear, I heard that YHWH, is the breath of Life.

Like Om?

No, not like Om, since Om does not exist, frannie

Col doesn't understand that more than one term is confusing; it gives the wrong impression to the little people; it suggests that the 'one' term may not contain the full meaning, the'essence' the "Idea" conveyed in the one, true, corporate approved brand name; that there might be more facets to an issue. Using more than one term suggests, maybe, that meaning might also move upwards and expand from the human mind and heart and not fully 'descendent' from the platonic idea.

What's next? Look for "Catholic" and "pagan". Much more clear, definitive, user (hierarchy) friendly; lays out the issue and the task.

Marie, I think you have totally missed the point ...

We are not supposed to be having a comfortable relationship with God, we are supposed to be cowering in the corner, hiding under a blanket in terror of his wrath. We are supposed to be fearful, whimpering, cowering little animals begging for and hoping that the almighty will take some time out of whatever He is doing with our leadership and drop us a crumb or two once in a while.

The only people that God allows to have a comfortable relationship with Him are the magisterial leadership, who HE has hand picked and placed in positions of authority to dictate and administer rules to and for the rest of us who are too stupid to be able to comprehend how to live a decent life.

Very simply Marie, if you were supposed to have a comfortable relationship with God, he would have made you a man and a bishop.

COL55, I can certainly see where you get the sense that we are supposed to be the lowly ones and a few "chosen" ones are to be regarded by us as more God's equals than ours--particularly after this weekend's Masses when they were reminded of their power to bind and loose both here on earth and in heaven. However, I see them getting themselves in trouble with my buddy Yaweh when they get too carried away, don't you?

No matter what they do to the hymns, though, they can't stop God from coming after us and introducing himself in very personal terms, can they? I'm guessing that the people who worry about these things don't get enough attention from you-know-who-eh.

Marie:

I couldnt tell from your reply, but I hope you read my post as a cynico-sarcastic exposition of the status quo within certain segments of christian fundamentalism rather than an espousal of personal beliefs on the subject.

I missed mass this weekend, but reading between the lines, I'm guessing they left out a very important part of the quotation: "he who in believes me". Without that part of the formula, the results will be somewhat remotely like a cake made without using eggs or yeast ... something will be created, but it will not be very appetizing.

I understood your point.

Actually, it was quite interesting in church in that it seemed to me that the Holy Spirit brought it to the presider's attention that there has been all together too much lording it over people, in that he was moved to spontaneous prayer after communion, asking God to remind Church leaders that Jesus was humble and inspire them to follow His example.