Truth and how it flows
In Benedicts mind (and JPII’s)
THE ULTIMATE TRUTH is that the institutional Church is NEVER wrong;
none of the their predecessor popes ever made mistakes or errors of judgment
that need to be corrected.
Everything has to flow from that foundational proposition.
The hierarchy honestly and literally does believe that Truth flows down from God
through the Popes to the people.
It has never entered their heads that God speaks through all people,
that the role of the Pope is essentially a role of chairperson of the panel,
or chairperson of the facilitators.
We, the body of Christ, ought to be entrusted to listen to all the messages.
By our baptism we are called to be a part of the process
in discerning and articulating which insights and messages are of truly Divine origin.
That has simply never been part of their mind frame.
The local bishops of the early Church listened to their local communities and,
from time to time, came together and discerned
what God seemed to be saying to the collective family.
The true sense of Church comes from the bottom up rather than top down.
The successor to Peter is NOT some brainiac who has the hotline to God.
Like Peter and Paul they might be very flawed human beings.
This man is essentially the person who calls the meeting where
minutes are kept of what is decided upon
by the collective representatives of the people.
The local communities chose those leaders
who understood their people
and who could articulate what God was saying to their community.
The culture of the Church was formed, and developed over time
by this continual communication of God to the people.
It is the Corpus Christi
— the collective of the people who make up the body of Christ —
who are deemed to be infallible,
not some self-elected hierarchs in funny costumes.
The infallibility is expressed upwards through God communicating to ALL humankind.
What God is saying is discerned through the local leaders
and then thrashed out and debated when they come together collectively
under the coordination of the Successor of Peter.
Those that presently steer the ship are not likely to be listening to you or me.
They honestly don’t have any perception
of any truths that might originate down in the direction of where you and I sit.
Through their training, and this deeply embedded clerical culture,
these clerics simply do not have a sense that they have to listen to the people.
In their mind Truth is simply not to be found in that direction.
As they perceive it, we (the people) have to listen to them,
and obey them,
as they’re the only ones with access to the real answers,
Divine Truths.
Would not adopting a different model, a bottom up Church,
reunify Christianity in almost one stroke?
It does not diminish the primacy of Peter
(although it might diminish the egos of some of his successors).
This idea of the infallibility being in possession of the entire body of Christ
— the entire body of humanity —
would have deep appeal
possibly even amongst all the major religious systems of belief
without diminishing any of them.
The roles of bishops, and the pope,
are just as crucial and important roles as they are within the existing paradigm,
We just won’t burden them with all the hypocrisy
that has become associated with their offices.
It would be the protection against errors like that made in the case of Galileo
(or Humanae Vitae).
Most of our current problems
are because Benedict just cannot bring himself to admit,
even to himself,
that Paul VI might have got it wrong,
or that he might have been manipulated by vain men like Ottaviani
over the artificial contraception issue.
Lets get on with it!
It is sad that we cannot see
It is sad that we cannot see the fruits of Vatican II come to fruition. The revolution of love and compassion must start in the pews and rise to become shouts from the mountain tops!
In Yves Conger's tripartite
In Yves Conger's tripartite address, "Laity, Church, and World" (1960), he spoke of an evolution of the Catholic Church in the West from the Middle Ages to the modern era. An evolution from a less codified rule base to a more legalistic form. According to Congar this development was directly related the the Church's desire to distance herself from the dogmatic differences Protestantism raised, as well as her reaction to questions that the scientific Revolution had posed.
Congar stressed that even though this move toward legalism was inspired by good intentions, a natural self-defence mechanism of the the Church, it stood in stark contrast to St. Thomas Aquinas' warning that the Church not become overly perscriptive in setting a swamp of laws and rules for the faithful to follow. As Congar writes:..."The church is not walls, or barriers either, but people, the faithful. And it was Aquinas who wryly remarked "if we resolve the problems posed by faith exclusively by means of authority, we will of course, possess the truth---but in empty heads!"
As Poetman observes, the official Church is not listening to the people, because the pope and hierarchy believe that only they have the authority to make decisions in the Church. The Hierarchy believes that the best thing that the laity can do is permit themselves to be led by their betters (the Hierarchy). Unfortunately, in maintaining this stance, the Official Church not only shows an empty head (refusing to recognize that the Holy Spirit can gift even the youngest child), but the Church in not listening to the people, shows that it also has an empty heart.
Dear Little Bear, Can you
Dear Little Bear, Can you tell me where I can find the article? Thanks. Frannie
Amen! Poetman. I've been
Amen! Poetman. I've been back in the priesthood a little over a month, and already I have been fired by the Legion of Mary and the Pro-Life group. They are, as we speak, probably gathering the rocks to stone me with and the stake to burn me on. I questioned this so-called "Truth" and was hit with quotes from the cathechism and selective quotes and their narrow translations from these people who would not even listen to my rebuttals, but rather walked out of the office and called me all kinds of names. I think some were like Anti-Christ, protestant, and heretic. I was just so grateful that they were the people in the parish who respect life! God-forbid if they didn't!
I don't have any problem with what they believe or what nurtures and sustains them. I just wish they would have the same respect for me.
Good Sir, may the peace of
Good Sir, may the peace of God be with you and may you be sure and confident in the love of Christ who we know keeps us close to God:
"Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written,
‘For your sake we are being killed all day long;
we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered.’
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." [Romans 8:33-38]
God's peace,
e+
The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy
"Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." (John 20:21)
This past weeks readings led
This past weeks readings led itself well to preaching on this, especially the second reading which followed this reading you quote. I challenged the people to follow their conscience - their informed conscience.
jstab, you wrote: "I just
jstab, you wrote: "I just wish they would have the same respect for me."
Therein lies the irony. They will not. They will demand their right to their beliefs, then deny the same right to those who disagree with them. That is one of the characteristics of the "fundamentalist orthodox" (F.O.) in any segment.
(NOTE: F.O does NOT include those who are faithful to traditional orthodox beliefs)
The F.O. will mercilessly persecute anyone who disagree with them, and claim to be doing it in the name of God. Never once will it occur to them that in doing so, they are promoting hate and being disciples of Satan, instead of promoting love and being disciples of Christ. Never once will it occur to them that this is the type of attitude that has contributed to millenium of atrocity both in and out of the church. Never, that is, until someone does it to them, then they will squeal like a banshee.
Those who cannot think for
Those who cannot think for themselves and rely on "authority" to tell them what to believe and do, are those who are likely to fall in line with the likes of Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and Rev. Jim Jones.
Hello jstab, Do these poor
Hello jstab,
Do these poor souls who cannot think for themselves also include those who fall in line behind Jesus? And those who deeply love His Church? Such as the very long list of saints, fathers and doctors, and the holy martyrs who put this love above their own lives?
I guess they just never "got it".
Thomas
Dear Father, May I have your
Dear Father, May I have your blessing? Thanks. Frannie
Frannie, you will always
Frannie, you will always have my blessings. I always enjoy your input.
May I have your blessing as
May I have your blessing as well?
I will pray for all of us
I will pray for all of us here who care enough about the church to dialogue about it. ALL - meaning those on both sides of the fence and those in the middle! We are all God's Children!
Jstab: What do you suppose
Jstab:
What do you suppose would be the end result, if we really understood
--- "We are all God's Children"
Would we still be able inflict deliberate injury on another?
Would we still be able to lash out in anger and hate at another?
Would we still be able to villify another who disagreed with us?
Would we still be able to believe there is only ONE way, my way?
Would our leaders still be able to lie to us?
Would those we trust still be able to betray that trust?
What would the world be like if we really understood?
Jstab, I don't know if I
Jstab, I don't know if I should congratulate you or not, but I most certainly respect your courage. You can take comfort in knowing they love you enough to try and save you. I for one will just pray for you and wish you all the best.
http://enlightenedcatholicism-colkoch.blogspot.com
And don't forget Giordano
And don't forget Giordano Bruno. The Church is still unrepentant for its "mortal" sin against him.
In 1600, the Dominican monk Giordano Bruno was ignominiously burned at the stake after being condemned by the Church for heresy in the matter of his new cosmology that contradicted Scholasticism, the official philosophy of the Roman Catholic Church.
Theological fixation in Earth-Centrism leads to dead ends, as the lesson of Earth’s “ecozoic crisis” makes very clear to Postmodern consciousness.
At a very unsettled time in history, the Church’s theology of staticism-centrism was challenged by the sun-centered cosmology of Copernicus, but even more insightfully by the cosmology of Giordano Bruno, who suffered the tragic consequence of being dragged before the Roman Inquisition (by Chief Inquisitor, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, SJ) and condemned to be burned at the stake.
This new cosmological insight is actually prior to, or at least contemporary with, the Copernican heliocentric understanding. The Dominican Monk, Giordano Bruno (1548-1600), arrived at the cosmological insight of homogeneity (the properties of matter are everywhere identical) and isotropy (that the cosmos appears the same from any point of observation) as “the consequence of his discovery of cosmic acentricity and infinity”. [Ramon G. Mendoza, “The Acentric Labyrinth”, 1995, Element Books, Inc., P.O. Box 830, Rockport, MA 01966, pg. 74].
“Bruno’s discovery of the infinitude, isotropy, and homogeneity of the universe… has been carried by Linde to its ultimate consequence. The All is no longer necessarily a sea of billions of galaxies and clusters of galaxies; the All may be an infinite ocean of infinite universes!” (Id, pg 184). This sounds like St. John Damascene’s definition of God, “a sea of infinite substance”.
Because of the overlap of Bruno’s radical cosmology into [and its threat to] the centrist politics of theology, the Roman Inquisition, under Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, SJ, felt compelled to condemn the visionary monk and burn him at the stake. This event had a chastening impact on dissenters, then and now, “…[T]he autonomy and independence of reason from religious supervision…was the decisive reason for Bruno’s condemnation and execution, since his position posed the most dangerous threat to the power of ecclesiastical authorities should they ever lose their tight grip on scientific inquiry.” (Id, pg 167).
On its face, history documents not just a conspiracy of silence by Church but an arrogant determination of Church self-righteousness in its condemnation and discrediting of Bruno and its refusal to admit to any wrongdoing for this specific injustice. The matter is complicated by the fact that before his defeat at Waterloo, Napoleon had plundered the archives of the Holy Office and made off with the records of the original acts surrounding the Roman trial of Bruno; after Waterloo, the pope reclaimed them, and on the way of their return to Rome from Paris the records were lost. (Ramon G. Mendoza, Id, pg 52). [Sylvester L Steffen, “Pursuing Truth”, QUANTUM RELIGION, 2003, pp 38-47, www.authorhouse.com]
If Church is to be credible in its pursuit of truth, it needs to be honest about past mistakes, admit errors, and set the record straight.
As Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was the successor to Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, SJ; so it seemed right to me, and in the best interest of the Church, to petition Cardinal Ratzinger to correct the sorry injustice against Giordano Bruno, and to set the record straight with history. To this end, I wrote then Cardinal Ratzinger the Open Letter that follows.
10 February 2002
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect,
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
The Vatican,
ROME, ITALY — EUROPE
Dear Cardinal Ratzinger:
As successor to Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, SJ, and regarding events surrounding the condemnations of Giordano Bruno and Galileo (which occurred under his watch), I call your attention to the admission of the Church for its wrongdoing against Galileo but no such admission for wrongdoing against Bruno.
In contrast to Galileo, Bruno’s punishment was execution by burning at the stake. This is a tragically harmful scandal that cries to heaven for a specific response by the Church. The Church’s perceived arrogance in refusing to resolve this publicly apparent conspiracy of silence, intended to credit the Church and discredit Bruno, can only aggravate the scandal of the injustice—to the Church’s discredit. Unfortunately for the Church, in cosmological vision, Bruno, to his credit, is perceived today more correct than the Church.
I’m enclosing the excerpt “Pursuing Truth” from an upcoming book "QUANTUM RELIGION, the Good News of Rising Consciousness", which directs attention to specifics of the wrongful discrediting of Bruno.
Please act to resolve this scandal before you retire from your watch. Thank you for the consideration.
Sincerely, Signed) Sylvester L. Steffen
Not surprisingly, Cardinal Ratzinger did not respond. Perhaps, as Pope Benedict XVI he will take a new look with his successor Prefect to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. It is refreshing to see Pope Benedict’s commitment to the mutuality of Faith and Reason, as well as his new emphasis on the compelling moral issues of human waste and exploitation of nature, what is the “ecozoic crisis”.
Dear Jstab (Father), I will
Dear Jstab (Father),
I will pray very hard that you do not get stoned in the pit or burnt at the stake. But we both know that being in the public eye, and ministering to the people, often does entail that (psychologically and certainly spiritually).
So often we Catholics become so devoted to our own version of theology, piety, devotionalism, etc., that we forget the plea of Jesus to "love one another, as I have loved you." We can indeed be heartless, and almost "murderous" in our speech with one another.
In returning to Poetman's initial forum piece, he refers to the role of the pope, cardinals, and bishops in a "bottom up" model of the Church. One important bonus point in adopting this model for the clergy---is having the time to think, to read, to reflect. Many priests and also a number of bishops are so deluged with administrative duties, almost to the point, where the ability to grow beyond their own theology, piety, or devotionalism is stymied. But since Pope Benedict and the hierarchy don't have the "bottom up" model even in their sights, the model's success, depends upon the grace of the Holy Spirit and the willingness of the laity to not only accept their baptismal calling, but to accept it with verve, with gusto.