Evoluton clarifies Original Sin
[NOTE FROM MANAGEMENT: Two people began separate tables on the same topic, so I combined them here. -- Dennis Coday.]]
In the current edition of NCR, an essay titled 'Unfinished Business' gives the insights of Darwin credit for a new concrete appreciation for the problem of Original Sin. The author shares the church policy that the Adam and Eve explanation is only being maintained until something better comes along. We now have a superior explanation with the particulars of evolution.
In my opinion, the unexamined regression to the Latin Mass comes off as the installation of an inadequate 'Plug and Play' peripheral that is no longer supported by a new operating system. Vatican II is a landmark point of transition on the Timeline of history that continues to be ignored by church policy makers who have marginalized all discussions. This is just another insight from the treasure trove of the Council Fathers that doesn't even
get the time of day !
The Issue of Fallen Nature is at the center of the catechism and the promulgation of confusion is a serious distraction from the embrace of actionable understanding. The problems of our age demand an ever evolving understanding of who we are and where we are meant to go. The Garden of Eden is a profoundly important poetic image, but we can do much better in expanding upon its meaning to us and to future generations, which despite the skeptics, may be as numerous as the grains of sand of all the beaches on all the seas of the as yet undiscovered universe.
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Submitted by Sylvester L. Steffen on September 28, 2007 - 9:50am.
In other strands there’s been discussion of the “analogies of reciprocals”, for example, “faith supposes reason as grace supposes nature”. Louis Dupré in “The Enlightenment & Intellectual Foundations of Modern Culture”, pg 17, states an operative principle at work in evolution, namely, that everything is end/ means to everything else. Means and ends are reciprocally related, that is, every outcome is a means as well as an end.
Professor Daryl P. Domning, author of “Original Selfishness: Original Sin and Evil in the Light of Evolution”, writes in The National Catholic Reporter “Unfinished Business”, September 28, 2007, pg 13, how evolution gives a better sense of Original Sin than the Garden of Eden Story in Genesis.
It is my belief in the larger sense that A UNIVERSAL CONVERGENCE OF SCIENCE AND RELIGION IS INEVITABLE IF THEOLOGY AND SCIENCE ARE DONE RIGHT AND IF THEY ARE TRUTHFULLY CORRELATED.
The correlation of science and religion calls for depth psychology that thinks connections through and works through thinking by "analysis and synthesis" of reciprocal analogies and correlations; thus the observation of “the method of science: perficiendo cogitata cogitando sic perfecta” (working thoughts through and perfecting the thought-through thoughts). In other words, the evolution of consciousness cannot be rushed by jumping from topic to topic without connecting them by analysis and synthesis.
There is one far-back aspect of evolution that has profound implications in human socializing today and on the impact of humans on natural ecologies and human/ natural reciprocity. This consideration is important because of the contradictory outcomes (good and bad) that come from the same religious consciousness.
The thesis I propose here is this: the atavistic animal sex-instinct to herd and dominate has been brought forward by evolution in male/ female consciousness and does damage to the human psyche, to social relationships, and to ecology. The psychology of physical/ theological dominion, of political imperialism and patriarchical dominion, control and exploitation of global weblife, all ground in the early hard-wired coding of animal instinct. Consider dominion Church-culture, male-dominant clericalism and hierarchical sexual abuse and insensitivity.
Theological absolutism leads to excess in evoking contrasting outcomes: ecstasy and depression, elation and despair, love and hate, peace and violence. The success of human dominion over other life is the outcome of human evolution, but so is the violent and terminal wasting of ecologies. Confronting humankind now is how to prevent its (our) self-destruction by stemming exploitive appetites that are bringing us closer to “absolute” success.
Our future lies less in our capacity for dominion than it does in our capacity to engage universal consciousness and do an about course from the dead-end paradigm yet in place. The radical potentials of cortical brain processing (reason) need to be invoked in universal effort to escape the culture-traps of absolutism and dominion.
As The Second Vatican Council has recognized, and as consensus public thinking has come to recognize, ALL IS “OF A PIECE”. [Vat II, Cons. IV, “Gaudium et spes”, Intro, #5] Evolutionary consciousness now knows that success and failure are “of a piece”; ecstasy and depression are “of a piece”; elation and desperation are “of a piece”; love and hate are “of a piece”; peace and violence are “of a piece”. The correlated sense of religion and science needs now to be made “of a piece”. Can we “think” our way out of this dilemma? Thinking is the step that comes before action. We have to try. We can think and we can make it work. Let’s do it.
Luv2Laf, I wonder if closing
Luv2Laf,
I wonder if closing schools is really something that can be blamed on political or religious conservatives. The most frequent reason given for closing schools is that they do not meet their expenses. However from my perspective, parochial schools should be seen as a charitable endeavors and should be located in communities where they will make a positive moral and educational difference.
People in wealthy parishes should sponsor mission schools in inner city neighborhoods instead of building themselves grand facilities in the suburbs and leaving the poorer inner-city parishes or religious orders to find the funding for their schools. In order to support inner-city Catholic education in the 1960's, my husband was bussed into the city to attend a Catholic school. I attended an inner-city Lutheran parochial school that is now being used as a Catholic San Miguel school. Neither of us had abusive teachers.
These schools serve as more than educational facilities. They create a community. They are a positive social force that goes far beyond the communities in which they are located.
What always strikes me about being a parishioner in a Catholic Church with children in Catholic school (and this only touches me lightly because I am not the Catholic person in my Catholic family) is that every Catholic everywhere is considered equally needy when this is not the case. I see nothing wrong with demanding more from those who have more and sending it outside the diocese in some cases. People, even conservative ones, are more than generous when presented with a worthy cause.
The story of Adam, Eve, the
The story of Adam, Eve, the forbidden fruit and the Fall are metaphor.
In the Hasidic tradition, there is great stress put on the idea of
not hiding. The Hasidim stress the idea that Adam and Eve hid after eating the forbidden fruit. Also after they ate the forbidden fruit, God doesn't ask Adam and Eve "Are you being good or evil?". Instead God asks, "Where are you?". For the Hasidim transformation for men and women begins after they stop hiding.
Also for the Hasidim, good and evil are related. The Hasidim tell us that evil is lowest rung of good. The metaphor they use to describe this is that evil is throne of good. For them God
animates it all. Evil can create good. For instance only a recovering alcoholic, drug addict, prostitute (gender inclusive) can know the particular freedom, joy, and wisdom that their
particular journey gives. Evil can also create even worse evil.
Michael, San Francisco, CA
.
From the perspective of
From the perspective of evolution I puzzle how "original" sin is to be understood and what we must learn from it, for it surely seems that "original" sin is ongoing. What makes sense to me is a process I call "guilt transferrence". The evil we do "is on the throne of the good"; the good (we think) we do has future and unknown consequences of evil.
This is what I mean: cultured habits of wasteful consumerism (trashing nature) are outcomes of intentional and unintentional wrongdoing, whose consequences cannot be known at the time of the doing. It will fall on future generations to experience the cumulative crises and to feel the burden of guilt.
The many natural crises of our time give us a sense how they originate in intentional and unintentional wrongdoing in the past. The unrealized guilt of past generations surfaces in future consciousness, what is "guilt transferrence" of past doing to future consciousness. Our children and our children's children will suffer the guilt sense for our sins against nature today.
Personal/ social conscience (knowledge and will) is the means of lessening the destructive impact of sin against nature, which means, we must personally take seriously the consequences of actions done in intentional and unintentional ignorance, and do what we can to mitigate future catastrophe; in conscience, we owe it to our children.
Immediately following
Immediately following Vatican II there was much hope and excitement attached to the prospect of the Church becoming more collegial and less imperial. Pope Paul VI had called for lay input to an encyclical that became “Humanae vitae”, only to ignore lay input in the final draft. The encyclical was about population pressures and considerations of population control. It forbade “artificial” birth control means, but for whatever their reasons, the lay public, including Catholics, have largely ignored the encyclical’s proscription. This lay response has been very damaging to the Church because of what the laity feels has been a breach of trust. The fact is that Earth cannot continue to abide the human population and its present level of demand.
The politics of capitalism now operate globally. Corporate capitalism presumes continual growth of consumerism and GDP (Gross Domestic Product) as if global resources were unlimited. It is now clear from ecological waste and environmental degradation that exploitation based on endless growth and profit is doomed to failure. Ecological resources are limited and they cannot survive the assumption that the engines of profit will not run out of gas.
The survival of humankind demands that global societies adopt a new rationality and movement in new direction. Such new direction includes the realization that human populations have to reduce their demands on nature to below present levels, and that nature’s resource bases have to be stabilized, restored and sustained.
POPULATION AND MORALITY: human “right to life” is violated and mortally breached when ecological “right to life” is mortally breached. Religions need to teach the second mandate of the Genesis Story “not to consume the tree in the middle of the garden” with equal vigor as they teach the first, to "increase and multiply”.
PROFITEERING AND MORALITY: corporate feudalism and corporate consumerism are the ethics and economics that prevail. Because these ethics and economics are based on fraudulent premises, humankind is a train rushing blindly down tracks that dissolve.
RESTORATION AND EXPLOITATION: new and sustainable ethics/ economics call for the hands-on work of people everywhere to bring healing and restoration to nature, and in developing new and less wasteful ways of living together justly, with mutual respect and purpose — specifically, moving away from customary habits of ignorance, arrogance and the obsession to possess in excess.
SCIENCE CONSTRAINS RELIGION: religion supposes theology; theology supposes biology; biology supposes ecology; ecology supposes consciousness; consciousness supposes science; and science supposes religion. Authentic religion teaches the equivalent morality of personal “right to life” and ecological “right to life”.
This is a "non-conventional"
This is a "non-conventional" analysis and synthesis of the Original Sin Story. Though it is non-conventional, it is not irreverent or antithetical to Scripture. It is not conventional because it sees sin as falling out with nature. Infidelity to nature is infidelity to God. God speaks now as in the past in and through nature. Conversation, divine/ human is natural.
The natural approach is in contrast to the accustomed “fideist” approach that advances the ideologically purposeful theology of male patriarchy and dominion theology. The fideist approach presumes a literalist understanding of the story of creation and of God operating TOTALLY OUTSIDE natural processing and experience-driven evolution/ consciousness; and that divinity operates by extra-natural interventions (supernatural).
The thesis of the natural interpretation is that it is presumptuous and arrogant for humans to impose on God by presuming to tell how God operates (intervenes) in creation. Natural sense sees divinity functioning by way of “instance” in every working of the changing cosmos, Earth, and life. It stakes its faith claim in the understanding: “grace supposes nature”.
Justification for the “natural” interpretation is found in the hermeneutical instruction of Pope Pius XII in Divino Afflante Spiritu (Divine Inspiration), and, in the acquiescence of The Second Vatican Council to evolutionary consciousness, Consitution IV, Gaudium et spes, Introduction, #5.
Pius XII endorses the use of scientific methods in interpreting scriptures: from the perspective of circumstances at the time of writing; understanding the author and the writing genre used by the writer; and the intent of the writer. Vatican II understands nature to be “of a piece”: that evolutionary consciousness is widely accepted, and that old presumptions and misdirection based on misinformed presumptions require new “analysis and synthesis”, updating, also with respect to reading and interpreting scripture.
Creation isn’t a disconnected process; nor is humankind outside process-creation. The continuity of cosmic/ Earth evolution evidences and authenticates intelligence, whereas, disconnection evidences irrationality. Divine intelligence is above the imperfection of disconnection, discontinuity. Continuity saves past gains and passes them on; the past is forever lost to disconnection. The natural continuum advances holistically the potentials and achievements of intelligence implicated in nature. Divine consciousness is operative in and at all phases of the creative process, in conformity with and in the laws of nature, not outside them.
Self-awareness is a component of the process of cosmic consciousness, and is conditioned experientially over the long stretches of evolutionary time also by its manner of intentional interaction with nature. Self-awareness is the introspective perfection of “natural” intelligence; it is in constant process of advancing, (perfecta cogitando sic, thinking beyond status-quo perfection). Scriptural stories contain analyses and syntheses of updated self-consciousness, experientially derived over time and based on evolving consciousness occasioned by and within the natural, relational occurrences of complex, interactive systems.
Original sin is an evolved insight in the real world sense that the cautionary lessons contained in stories, myths and parables arise out of actual human experience. Such experience is long in the acquisition. The wasting of “the tree of life in the middle of the garden” is actual experience of cultural waste of local ecologies and of the need for people to leave trashed localities and relocate around the globe in search of other “gardens” in which to live. America represents such a place to Third World cultures.
The big question is how long will it take humankind to trash America’s wealth if it (we) refuse to reduce our demands on nature and its fragile ecologies? Ecological collapses and desertification even now represent the Angel with a fiery sword chasing people away from the mess they’ve created.
The desecrated garden experience is something global humanity has to deal with now. Looking to escape Earth and fly off to another planet is no solution. It's just a high-tech way of hiding. We cannot escape from ourselves. But, we can learn to live with ourselves if we put our minds to it. In fact this is the only realistic option we have. Necessity, the Mother-Nature of invention is talking to us now. It's time we respond to God asking "Where are you?"
Yes, all that ... and,
Yes, all that ... and, perhaps, a rediscovery of the true meaning of Covenantal relationship that is, for me, the basis of all process-theology and mystical discipline.
God's peace+
The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy
Jesus said, "You are the light of the world. ... let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:15-16)
Sylvester you might be
Sylvester you might be interested in something that's being given a go up here in Montana. The state has mandated education for all students in Native American culture. I guess I'm going to be getting involved in this through my housemate. He's an Assiniboine Holy Man who will be presenting to all the local schools in our area as part of this project. His goal is to emphasise man's connection to the Earth Mother as one of the most singular important aspects of Native American culture. Students can't really understand the Native American experience with out understanding this fundamental point. Or as Harry says, our spirituality cannot be separated from our culture or vice versa. They are one and they begin with Mother Earth.
My sincere hope is that we don't get flack from the Evangelical right before we even get started. On the other hand, this is state mandated. Anyway, keep us in your thoughts and prayers.
These discussions are great.
These discussions are great. I am reminded of the days of St. Thomas of Aquinas during which philosophy was used as a means to pursue an understanding of God. I believe that faith and reason are always in sync. Since science is a specific application of the intellect it is also in sync with our faith. If you ever feel that it gets out of sync, prayer and meditation can provide you with the answers.
When it comes to Adam and Eve, I like to keep it simple. It is simple. Out of jealousy Satan turned away from God to a world of sin. As they say, "Misery Loves Company." Alone and miserable, Satan tricked Eve into commiting sin. Eve fell into sin out of ignorance and carelessness, and Adam fell into sin out of peer pressure and carelessness.
As for evolution, I tend to look at it in light of the big bang theory, which describes a separation of time and space. The points from which we measure time depend on where we are along the continuum of the separation of time and space, which is always changing. Time is relative as is its measurement. So much of science is based on observation and theory. There are practical applications and there are a lot of theories.
I see no need to embrace an
I see no need to embrace an explanation of original sin that is expressed in terminology that is typical of our world at this time. Daryl P. Domning's article is imaginative--a mythic account based on evolutionary speculation--and so may speak to people who have tired of the old interpretation of the creation stories in Genesis, but there are still other ways of looking at these.
For example, many people do not realize that the tree of knowledge and the tree of life are two separate things. One can assume that the fruit of tree of life was not forbidden before humanity took a bite of the tree of knowledge. ("See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever." - Genesis 3:22) Consider that humanity was barred from partaking further of the tree of life in order to limit the suffering that would result from having knowledge; God expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden as an act of mercy.
Perhaps, the failure of Plan A, wherein humanity lives in eternal blissful ignorance, resulted in Plan B, wherein humanity is rescued after God is satisfied that humanity will recognize his largess: first God insists that humanity engage in the emotionally wrenching practice of sacrificing the best; then to make things perfectly clear, God demands that Abraham sacrifice his son; because of Abraham's satisfactory response, God offers his son on our behalf.
This scenario makes it imperative that we consider the importance of Jesus in all that happens and all that we do. What happens now--how we address social justice issues, how we address the environment, how we conduct ourselves individually within society--must be inclusive of this awareness that God sacrificed his son for a purpose that goes all the way back to the beginning of humanity's existence and all the way into the future as well. This sacrifice on our behalf requires that we examine and reexamine what we know about and from Jesus, because it is likely that we are not expected to get the social justice things working perfectly, or to get into perfect harmony with nature, or to be perfect in everything we do.
Perhaps now, since we know things that only God and and angels used to know, our physical existence has become a phase in a spiritual journey that once was not necessary but has been made possible by God who treasures us. Perhaps, we are on the right track when we speak of collective knowledge, awareness, or intelligence and examine our existence from a variety of perspectives. Perhaps, this is preparation for becoming part of God's omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence.
Conscience is the means/ end
Conscience is the means/ end of evolution’s intelligent design. The narrative lesson of the Original Sin Story is essentially about the consequences of failed obligation to covenant relationships in the essential Order of Natural Sacrament. Yes, humankind is ordered to “increase and multiply”, but, is equally ordered not to consume the continuum of web-life, the sustainable necessity of ecological health — the “tree” of vitality in the middle of the Garden.
All other truths contained in the Original Sin Story derive from the fundamental truth: GRACE SUPPOSES NATURE. This truth speaks to the mistake of the collusive act of giving corporations standing in law as persons. Corporations today are morphed structures of feudalism intending foremost personal profits without regard for the exploitive damage to nature and people. Thus, the corporate “person” rationalizes and reinforces the fraudulent “doctrine” of dominion right (male-corporate theology/ politics) over all other. The corporate exploitation of nature, yet and again, is fraudulent collusion in “eating” the Apple of Vitality, the Life-Tree in the “middle of the Garden”.
Reality is relationship. The relationship pattern in nature, the reciprocal nature of means/ end, is with outcomes of essential transformation, what is evolution. Evolution is more than theory, speculation, as John Paul II has said. The reality of reciprocal transformation in nature is the reality of evolution.
Dismissiveness toward evolution effectively relegates evolution to non-reality, to meaninglessness, which is to deny the cause/ effect continuity of moral order in essential evolution. The dismissal of evolution, of relegating it to the nebulous category of “speculation”, dismisses the obligatory role of humankind in the essential intelligence of symbiotic continuity, and devalues the place of human judgment (reason) in the causality of grace’s supposition of nature.
Regarding the conclusion as to the “method of evolution” that we are drawn to, our faith-fixations in static-centrist theology need to be re-thought in the light of evolutionary consciousness. This to me is the weight of “Gaudium et spes”, Introduction, #5.
Our President claims to be
Our President claims to be Christian, but disregards the teachings of Christ about wealth and dominance (and more). Instead, he appears to base his environmental policies, economic policies, domestic policies, and foreign policies on a combination of God's giving man dominion over the earth and that aspect of evolutionary theory that suggests survival of the fittest. It seems to me that attending to Jesus makes rethinking the theology to incorporate evolutionary consciousness unnecessary. It would seem that identifying our leader's hypocrisy might serve the same purpose without giving him so great a mental challenge.
The larger issue here
The larger issue here is the blissful disregard we in this culture have for history in general. A truly informed and involved public would have had a very difficult time accepting the package served up to us by the Republican National Committee.
Fr. Andrew Greeley has spent much energy in his career promoting Catholic Schools as our best investment in the future. An enthusiastic curiosity cultivated at the most basic moral level is invaluable in the growth of a healthy culture. The Conservatives insist upon closing these schools and refusing to enhance the beauty of the Mass and the Sacraments. Greeley has posted some of the findings from his study of Catholic Schools on his website, agreeley.com .
What do we want the real bottom line to be about ?
Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.
"The Conservatives...[insist
"The Conservatives...[insist on] refusing to enhance the beauty of the Mass and the Sacraments."
Perchance have you read the "Spirit of the Liturgy" by cardinal Ratzinger? or "Sacramentum Caritatis" or "Summorum Pontificum" by the same pen?
Oh yeah, and one reason the schools are being closed is that they are too expensive to run, which was not the case when religious kept their vows of poverty and remained faithful to the mission of their founders (both all but ceased despite V-II's warnings to the contrary).
Thank you HereToday, Luv21af
Thank you HereToday, Luv21af and Marie.
Now we get to the nub of our spiritual/ material crisis: “The Problem of Education”. Modern education does not have a sustainable worldview. Because we are taught priority connection to the supernatural (spirituality, grace) and disconnection from the natural (material, secular), we learn to think disconnectedly and behave disconnectedly. We victimize ourselves and nature, and the toll of misinformed, misdirected living is social schizophrenia, ecological disregard—disaster.
Because we are not taught how to live in and with nature we grow up “naturally” uneducated. Mostly we learn that food and everything that matters in life comes in packages from store shelves. Drug commercials bombard us to convince us that the cure-all to life’s problems is found in pills and elixirs.
Because we are urban cultured and educated, in worldview and ethic, we are taught to think and live irrespective of nature. This is a fundamental failure of all education, religious and public. We learn to obsess in “the city of God” and ignore God’s Country — Earth-connection, Earth-necessity — our rootedness in land, in nature.
From bottom to top, education is fundamentally flawed and we are impoverished because we eschew the natural roots of grace. If “grace supposes nature”, and, if we are ignorant of nature, we are ignorant of grace and behave disrespectfully toward nature and grace.
We need to revamp the entire “philosophy of education” by teaching the essential connection to Earth-life to our children from their earliest years. Growing up with pets doesn’t alone do it. Earth-connection comes from hands-on experience at an early age. Kids naturally get frustrated in school because life isn’t linked to Earth experience (evolution). The prison-like structures that schools are put kids in an environment uncultured in the first and really important lessons that matter, namely, that we come from Earth and we belong to Earth-Nature. It’s in Earth-connection that we intimately and constantly experience the Divine.
Because we are first and foremost cultured in ideologies of denominational religion, we learn alienation, disconnection and disrespect toward other cultures. In notions of alienation are the beginnings of violence toward others. Natural Law is primary in everybody’s life. All law and order begins in fidelity to Natural Law [See NCR, October 12, 2007, pg 4, “Natural law document studied”]
The problem of education isn’t money; it is a problem of social/ religious priority. The priority is life and how to live connected to grace, connected to Nature. Before we move on to the redesigning of education in this strand, let’s first do some hard thinking/ dialogueing about the problem of worldview, the problem of education/ religion.
Sylvester, I think if we
Sylvester,
I think if we look at humanity in its natural state, we will see evidence of what we refer to as good and evil. It seems that we have a built in tendency to make a distinction between the two that does not come from any kind of instruction (that is our "original sin"?). This tendency, if it has not caused humanity to develop religion (as an atheist would argue), has at least made humanity receptive to its being given to it by God.
The various religions of the world all make their mark by extolling good and condemning evil. Some advocate for the eradication of evil, others attempt to control evil. Catholicism, however, appears to have a found place for evil that is rather more acomodating. It acknowledges it and provides individuals with help in responding to it. This fits with Jesus' instruction to pray "deliver us from evil" and seems to me to provide a proper foundation for functioning well in the world, whether it is with regard to human interaction with the physical world as it exists in the absence of human activity (what you call Nature) or with regard to interpersonal relationships.
In other words, I think it is proper and useful to be taught a priority connection to the supernatural. Giving priority to our connection to the supernatural does not preclude being taught about our connection to nature. I would disagree with you that we are taught to disconnect from the natural, except inadvertently in that we fail to learn about our connection because of how our technology has made it typical for us to be distanced from nature.
I would suggest that in God's perception the distinction is not so much between absolutes of good and evil as between useful and detrimental to God's goal of uniting humanity with Himself. With that in mind, good stewardship of the environment is stewardship that sustains human life in such a way that it is able to devote attention to the spiritual rather than to concern itself with day to day survival. The perspective necessary to do this properly has to be inclusive of all human beings rather than providing for one at the expense of others and must utilize science with the humble acknowledgement that there is more to be learned than is known.
The worldview that you are promoting, that emphasizes grace and Nature, already exists, has existed for a long time, and was once actively taught. However, when one cannot teach "religion" to people, one loses the premise for teaching about grace and Nature, and therefore I (and likely Luv2Laf and heretoday) believe that there is a reason to advocate for parochial schools. It is in the parochial school setting that the entirety of what is believed can be taught--balanced as opposed to myopically focused on those issues that become contentious due to fashions of popular culture.
The words grace and Nature (with a capital N) have no place in a society that worships personal acheivement, wealth, and earthly power, so it is a little beyond me to evision how your vision would come into being without the support of institutions that advocate a supernatural worldview.
Marie, you say "I would
Marie, you say "I would disagree with you that we are taught to disconnect from the natural, except inadvertently in that we fail to learn about our connection because of how our technology has made it typical for us to be distanced from nature."
We are taught by omission. Church has not been strong against colonial (corporate) exploitation of nature. We can only hope that the crises of the moment will bring Church into affirmative teaching. We too easily blame technology while refusing to let the finger of blame be directed at our own (Church's) failures and omissions. The blame game really frustrates me. And Catholics are the best at it.
You also say: "The worldview that you are promoting, that emphasizes grace and Nature, already exists, has existed for a long time, and was once actively taught. However, when one cannot teach "religion" to people, one loses the premise for teaching about grace and Nature, and therefore I (and likely Luv2Laf and heretoday) believe that there is a reason to advocate for parochial schools. It is in the parochial school setting that the entirety of what is believed can be taught--balanced as opposed to myopically focused on those issues that become contentious due to fashions of popular culture."
"Once actively taught" how long ago?
My problem is not with parochial schools. To the contrary, I very much support them. My problem is that religious instruction fails to get beyond the intelligence of a child. There is no effective theology for or education of adults. Grace is learned by experiencing it. It is hard to get an authentic sense of grace when one doesn't learn about grace connections. As Church, we fail in Eucharistic modeling. Children should experience Eucharist in family, in Church, in their growing years. It seems to me that Church (people) is so hung up in its old compulsions to teach subservience and surrender of soul to it that it fails to teach the rudiments of natural sense. As adults we fail to discern the grace connections of nature because we never learned it as children. I don't believe that parochial school kids have a better appreciation of nature than non-parochial kids do. Grace is from on high, we are taught, through the hierarchy. Oh? We have such a ...parochial... understanding of Sacrament.
All right, let's enlarge it
All right, let's enlarge it then. All of the Catholic Elites have failed to prioritize their duties and actually do something about them !
If you are trying to cast a slur upon the wealth that Greeley has amassed you have a highly impoverished understanding of the vows of Holy Orders.
Someone found a way to pay off astonishing legal settlements. The argument that there isn't a way to keep schools open is spurious. This is simply administrative incompetence.
Please explain how Andrew Greeley is failing the mission of the Catholic Church ? Is it his Dirty Novels ? Has the loud- mouthed Irishman spent just a little too much time in the company of Pseudo-Scientific Secular Humanists and lost his way ? Is he acting in contravention to the teachings of Vatican II derived from the Ecumenical insights of universal human experience ? Maybe he should not have stood up to his bullying superiors and forced them to back down from irrational behaviour. Perhaps the studied, self-transforming discipline of homiletic communication should have been supplanted by pre-packaged and pre-approved formulae and the dissemination of original stories, especially on the internet where so many of the young gravitate, be abandoned. Indeed, no public comment should be made in the media criticizing both civic and church officials when their behaviour is clearly going against the interests of their people, it is unseemly for the poor, humble, obedient and submissive cleric to be seen causing an uproar and a scandal against the unimpeachable status quo. Take a good look at Myanmar ! Mediocrity as displayed most obviously in the artistic state of the Church is indicative of stagnation throughout. Greeley's call is for an evaluation of true excellence and its passionate employment in worship as the seminal source of parish life because it most truly reflects the nature of our Creator.
We spill alot of virtual ink over these things, but what will we actually do to get the passion back into the mission for everybody ? Greeley is offering his experience and demands that true Beauty be restored to its rightful place at the head of the Church. He offers the whys and the hows. He provides exhaustive concrete evidence for this reform. There is a genuine continuity to the involvement of God in history and our awareness of its particulars expands by the day.
Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.
"If you are trying to cast a
"If you are trying to cast a slur upon the wealth that Greeley has amassed you have a highly impoverished understanding of the vows of Holy Orders."
LOL...
I really don't care about Fr Greeley that much (although if he has amassed wealth as a priest I find that scandalous, but it does not make him unique or special in any way). Pope Pius XI, in his encyclical on the Catholic priesthood stated: "The Catholic priest ought to be remarkable for his detachment from worldly things as much as for his love of chastity." St John Bosco was admonished by his mother to never speak to her again if he had the misfortune to become a wealthy priest. The Second Vatican Council counseled that priests to embrace voluntary poverty, to live as their portion and inheritance in the Lord.
But still I did not mention the poverty of priests, but of religious, which is a separate matter. The poverty of a priest is limited in practicality, he must have a car, insurance, keep in good health for the sake of others. The poverty of religious orders, even active (including teaching) orders, was and ought to be stricter. "Before all else, religious life is ordered to the following of Christ by its members and to their becoming united with God by the profession of the evangelical counsels." (Perfectae Caritatis) "Religious should be poor in fact and in spirit, having their treasures in Heaven." (ibid)
To pay off those settlements religious orders have been evicted, parishes closed, more schools closed, priests and other diocesan workers salaries and benefits cut. But your right if the priesthood had embraced a spirit of poverty than there would have been enough money to keep schools open, but its gone now.
As to Fr Greely, his lifestyle is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so I won't indulge your obsession here (funny for a while I thought you might actually be him).
"As to Fr Greely [sic], his
"As to Fr Greely [sic], his lifestyle is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so I won't indulge your obsession here (funny for a while I thought you might actually be him)."
LOL. Is that what that emoticom is for? Anyhow, I did laugh out loud, since there was a point in the past year when the same thought crossed my mind, even though it isn't exactly his style. :-)
(Fr. Greeley does give lots of money away to charities, dioceses, etc. and that should be mentioned as well...Hmmmmm, I wonder if he worries if his money is actually going to pay for pedophile complaints, or if he stipulates otherwise to the dioceses...hmmmm, hope so....? Fr. Andy, are you out there?)..
Just a curious question,
Just a curious question, HereToday: does Fr Greeley as Fr Greeley bother you more than the "Social Science" that Fr Greeley does? What do you think of Fr. Greeley's science?
There are many ways to say
There are many ways to say the same thing.
Evil can be spread, but evil does not create anything; nor does it have any power over creation. Evil spreads through temptation. Evil can only tempt one to commit an evil act. As we start to realize this, as we start to allow God to live through us, we come to a greater understanding of the glory of God and the weakness of evil.
As we separate the evil act from the source of the evil act, it becomes easier to see that all of God's creation is capable of transformation, purity, light, and love. Only good is necessary; it's what we need; it's all we need.
One of the greatest temptations is to judge the path another has taken. I am grateful that I was taught to say, "There but for the grace of God go I." The more that I can feel these words in my heart, the more likely I am to feel compassion for those less fortunate than myself.