Catholics and the Fine Arts ; The Liturgical Imagination

My local PBS station broadcast a program last night that highlighted the work of Bernini and focussed intensively on his sculpture of the rapture of St. Theresa. This is the sort of sacramental homilizing with which the Catholic tradition has traditionally infused its members. This places everyone in receptive position to respond to the evocations of preachings at the mass. This pragmatic discipline connects the congregation with the souls of the past and their stories. It connects all of the daily stivings with sacred purpose. We are reassured by the successful lives of the past. We become confident that we can meet the challenges that harmonize with these lives as called to by the priest.

In a different post on this thread I was inspired to compose a maritime metaphor largely as a result of the fact that I was treading in deep waters by conversing in the realm of professional clergy who are peers in Sociology. My credentials are of substantially lesser standing. All that being said, the intent of this thread is to foment a discussion of the Homilizing effect of well done art and its history in the Catholic Tradition.

For what it is worth, the initial imaging of the , ' breaking open the Word of God ' , for me was that of the Hermetic Seal or an egg, ( nice Easter symbolism ), or a big watermelon.

Some Evangelicals like to share their personal conversion experience as an invitation to community. Charismatics get a bad rap for their effusive behavior. ( My typically Nordic reserve was shocked by my first visit to an Assembly of God service ). By reading William James classic, ' The Varieties of Religious Experience ', I began to see the commonalities of the human pilgrimmage. Then I read , ' The Idea of the Holy ' , by Rudolf Otto and despite my limitations with the Greek lexicon I began to get a much fuller appreciation of our common heritage. ' The Sacred and the Profane ', by Mircea Eliade, whom Andrew Greeley claims as his teacher, rounded out this trilogy for me in the history of human experience and helped me realize what actually happened in the run up to the Second Vatican Council. After the discoveries at Qumran and the collapse of European ideas of civility the stories we tell ourselves about who we are and where we are going had to be radically revised.

Excellent art endures. Let us keep the tradition alive by promoting new artists and ever enriching the society in which we live.

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

Much appreciated commentary, *L2L*.

I bet you would like Louis-Marie Chauvet's (trans. Patrick Madigan & Madeleine Beaumont) SYMBOL & SACRAMENT; A Sacramental Reinterpretation of Christian Existence (Liturgical Press, 1995) which is wonderful attempt to bring a timely aesthetic back into the "proceess of symbolic exchange", as Chauvet puts it. This may be more semiological than the kind of expressive art that you are interested in but I think it is a compatible approach.

More appropriate to your purpose may be Peter Pearson's little book A BRUSH WITH GOD; an Icon Workbook (Morehouse 2005) that is a really terrific setp-by-step instruction on the practice of spiritual iconography. The chapters are clear and the advice is VERY practical and gentle. Best is the invitation to MAKE ART which is the thing I most love about this little gem.

Thanks for shining a light on the grace of spiritual art!

The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy

"All who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear..." (Romans 8:14-15)

Father Greeley has reminded me that all aspects of the Mass, including liturgy and homily, are works of art. Unfortunately for the noisy ' Conservatives ' , they still have to approach the act of sermonizing in the vernacular.

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

With all due respect, this is pure bunkum. Greeley has lost it on this one.

Oi vey ...

The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy

"All who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear..." (Romans 8:14-15)

From the introduction to , ' How to Save the Catholic Church ' :

' No pejorative comparisons with the other traditions of the great Yahwistic family of religions are intended. The notion that Catholicism is more sacramental and analogical than Protetantism , ( or Islam or Judaism ), is frequently advanced as much by Protestant theologians like Langdon Gilkey, Martin Marty and Paul Tillich as by Catholic theologians like David Tracy, Lawrence Cunningham and Richard McBrien. But this is not to say that the Catholic way is better than the Protestant ( or Jewish or Islamic ) way, but merely to assert that Catholics and the Catholic Church must understand what is special to their tradition if they are to speak fruitfully with members of other traditional religions. Catholicism has a different style of religion than Protestantism does, but not completely different, not totally different, not different to the point of mutual exclusivity. '

' Our purpose in this book is essentially conservative, in two senses of that word. We propose no doctrinal or ethical changes, but focus, rather, on policy, that is, on the methods and approaches and styles of the Catholic behavior. Such policy matters at most times in human history are far more important than the theological issues that preoccupy the elites. And Catholicism knew implicitly, long before its brilliant son Marshall McLuhan, that the medium is the message: the style in which a message is communicated delivers the message more powerfully than the actual words of the message. '

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

Thanks *Luv* but, I have to say that Fr. Greeley's interpretation of his sources and his conflation of the meaning of "sacramental" still seems to me, alas, quasi-bunkum, if, nevertheless, not ill-intended ...

I should also 'fess up and admit that I, as a senior social scientist, have a little trouble with Greeley's methodology re: data analysis. Generally, I'm disinterested, but his claims to denominational distinctions as you describe them seem to me to be over-reaching. This is unfortunate, in my view, because the level of American academic discourse regarding comparative religion in the context of religious sociology seems to be approaching an all-time high in terms both of quality (i.e., descriptive & analytical caution and replicability of findings) and the scope of inter-disciplinary inclusion (e.g., relevant American jurisprudence is now often included in sociological description.)

All this notwithstanding, the beauty of Medieval art dedicated to proclaiming Christendom and the wonderful aesthetic legacy of sacramental liturgy (Roman and Byzantine) is an abundant trove of historic religious experience. We all can celebrate this Western contribution to modern and post-modern religious and artistic sensibilities.

As we in the West begin a genuine dialogue with the Ancient Middle East, the Far East and the South let us hope that our provision is one of shared cultural legacy.

God's peace.

The Rev. Dr. E. McCoy

"All who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear..." (Romans 8:14-15)

Outside of the objective order of things, perhaps an experience with the polyvalent applications of the theory of ' Religion as Poetry ' is in order. In his mystery novels featuring the irrepressible Nuala Anne McGrail and the unassuming bishop 'Blackie' Ryan, Fr. Greeley communicates the enduring graciousness of creation in the face of the most daunting of circumstances. I find them refreshingly uplifting.

I would also venture to say that the enthusiastic reception demonstrated for your offerings here at this Cafe' are more than mute testimony for this preconscious sense of sacrament. This is the finest example of the devotion to the spirit of Vatican II espoused by the administrators of this site.

A recent encounter with jury-duty has left a hopeful impression upon me about the treatment of all persons involved in the administration of justice.

Greeley's chief lament here is that the Catholic elite refuse to recognize the resources available to them to evoke and develop a dramatic response from its people and proceed to employ programs like Catholic Social Theory on its heels.

We proceed to sail these waters, negotiating an occasional riptide or storm, and with a good breeze at our backs and a good grip on the rudder, we arrive at our destination full of the confidence of achievement. ( There , I've used a recreational summer metaphor to sum things up. I'll keep working on it. )

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

While Fr. Greeley laments the fact that Catholics shed portions of their tradition at the same moment that Protestants begin to adopt them, as in recognizing the importance of Mary, The Immanent dimension of the Divine revealed in the stories and images of the Catholic tradition are largely ignored leaving only the focus on the Transcendant. Greeley sees a Rain Forest of gracious imagery in Catholic tradition which appeals to universal inclusion of human sensibilities.

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

This is a very interesting and provocative thread.

I've always enjoyed Greeley because he finds a very natural connection, through sociology, between beauty and a life of love.

A few days ago I was listening to a series of lectures on the history of ideas in science, and the professor spoke about Omar Khayyam. Yes, the poet (of "a jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and thou" fame).

Science? Beauty, yes, but science? Well, apparently, the venerable Omar was also an accomplished mathematician. He is credited with solving several classes of cubic equations, which are algebraic problems. But this was not the reason the professor mentioned him.

What the professor did was read, verbatim, a long passage of text written by Omar. It was an account, in words, of how to solve a difficult equation in algebra.

Algebra was developed in the 9th century in Arabia, but it was practiced in words -- without symbols. This requires considerable mental gymnastics as well as verbal skills. Omar's skills as an algebraicist drew heavily upon his artistry as a poet (at least I would venture that connection).

And now, to the professor's point: it was not until a symbolic notation for algebraic operations was developed in the Renaissance that algebra became available for wide use in both art (e.g. perspective drawings, building cathedrals) and industry.

We are accustomed to thinking about God/love/whatever-the-name in words. We express our experience of God/love/whatever-the-name in art, and recognize such experience as beautiful. Greely's point is well taken.

To reason by analogy, would our conceptions and thinking about God/love/whatever-the-name be more accessible and generative if we were able to do what algebra did between the 9th century and the Renaissance? What kind of "notation" are we looking for? Is beauty that kind of notation? Or is beauty like John the Baptist. Must we look for another?

To reason dialectically, what analytical tools -- building on the beauty we recognize in common -- might help us recognize the one People of God that Christ prayed that we be? The saints of all religions seem to have some grasp of this, like Omar's grasp of algebra through words. But most of us are caught up in our different religious identities.

Which is why beauty is such a helpful starting point.

Clyde Christofferson

Is there a ban on recorded music? I've never heard of that. In one of my local churches the parish priest, for years, has been using recorded music and hymns during the Mass, fading them in and out by means of a remote control in his pocket.

Jim Houston

Yes, because even the poorest (technically speaking) praise from people actually present is greater than all the splendors of music preformed and replayed. (Hence my opposition to payed musicians for Mass, give me a few mediocre musicians who offer their music as a prayer over a paid musician who plays for mammon.)

I take your point. Reminds me of the Don Camillo story where Christ asks him why no one was singing at the previous night’s service. Camillo, surprised, replies that because it was such a special occasion they had hired a professional choir to replace their usual choir and they had performed beautifully. Christ insists he didn’t hear anyone singing.

I’ve found though that the ‘contemplative’ recorded music and hymns played before the start of Mass and during distribution of the Eucharist reinforces my sense of a sacred place and helps me to focus and raise mind and heart to God. Perhaps others would prefer silence - or as near to silence as you can get with people shuffling, coughing, shushing kids. I haven’t heard anyone complaining.

The whole area of church music seems to be a minefield. The shocking, bile-filled exchanges on church music I occasionally come across on Catholic web-sites brings the realisation that one man’s meat is another man’s poison, and that if music has charms to sooth the savage breast, it also has extraordinary power to inflame.

Jim Houston

Here's another quote from the Greeley's. This one specifically addresses the liturgy :

' The vernacular ritual tends to be a boring re-enactment of the central event of our faith. If it is to create a sense of mystery, ritual must be written by artists and retold by artists. If ritual is not art, especially when it is in one's own language, people will not discover God's presence either in the story it re-enacts or in their own stories. Ritual must move people out of ordinary time and into the time of the god's, the mysterious time that sheds light on everything that happens in ordinary time. Ritual must add romance to the love affair between God and His/Her people. The best ritual, like good theater, catches the imagination of the participants. But good ritual is more than theater because the members of the audience are active participants. '

As to rationality and the intellect this is what they have to say :

If one believes that God's self-disclosure occurs in and through the natural and human world, then obviously the work of the human intellect, with all its limitations and imperfections, is one of the principle sacraments of God's loving goodness. If one's religious experience is sacramental and one's imagination is analogical, one must necessarily be committed to rationality. If the Church's commitment to rationality at any given time and place ( as in the United States today ) is defective, it is for the same reason that its commitment to the arts is defective: the Catholic religious sensibility - imagination, image, story, and community - are not valued highly enough by the institutional Church and its clerical elites. '

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

This is why the training of priests to be good homilists and motivators and "awakeners of the imagination" is so important. Sadly, these days, we seem to have of late a collection of far too many (certainly not all) colorless, go-along, people chosen not for their moral courage (as in their ability to imitate Christ) but for their organizational conformity.

This is so sad for the Church, for Justice and for the future of the Gospel Message the Holy Spririt imbued the Apostles with on Pentecost, and which is given to each of us in the Sacrament of Confirmation. At Confirmation, we are ALL asked to become Story-Tellers. The Story is the Good News of the Gospels. Perhaps now, more than ever, since we appear to have a corporate structure more than a Church, it is important that Laypeople become more proactive about taking their (storytelling, motivating, supporting) responsibilities more seriously, in ever greater numbers. Maybe the model should be one of less "dependence" on "what Father says" and more on building new structures of Church Community that look less to Rome, yet remain Catholic.

To continue:

' At the present time few liturgical events create this sense of participation in a Divine drama. Vernacular ritual has not created a sense of participatory theater, of drama at its best, of God as the Storyteller who invites us to be actors in the Divine drama, modeling the role first played by Jesus Christ. More often than not, the priest is the only actor and he does not get good critical reviews. instead, ritual is a mundane repetition of words, most of which seem boring to the listeners. As one priest observed, " I can see them turn me off and go into their own little worlds, especially as we move into the canon."

I wonder how a disinterested theater critic would evaluate the experience of the average church goer. Perhaps the old Roman traditions of the Coliseum could be put into play. Is Roger Ebert listening ?

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

I am not sure that I can answer you comprehensively, but Fr. Greeley has published his e-mail address , ( agreel@aol.com ) , on his website , ( agreeley.com ) , and welcomes questions there.

The short answer is that he views the stories as central to the Catholic sensibility, and that the arts enhance the communicability of the Sacramental Imagination as the fountainhead of the evangelical impulse.

Heres a quote from a book he and his sister Mary Greeley Durkin authored entitled , " How to save the Catholic Church " :

' A sacramental religion like Catholicism cannot escape art even if it wants to. Its fundamental insight that God lurks in creatures requires it to realize that art, however unconsciously, searches for the lurking God, for Being both hidden and revealed in beings. The artistic act is in its very nature sacramental because it seeks to reveal, to disclose, to illumine. In the creations of art the God who lurks in the creation of nature is especially likely to be discerned. All other things being equal, the better the art the more sacramental it will be and the more revealing of God. Since art reveals God and indeed tells, one way or another, stories of God, the best of artistic activity is none too good for God. And poor artistic activity is an insult to God.'

'The Catholic Church in the United States will not be " saved " without a recapture of understanding about the nature of art as religious activity and a rediscovery of the Church's role of enthusiastic patron of the best in art. There is no stronger instrument for facilitating religious experience, strengthening religious imagination, telling religious stories, and creating religious community.'

Fr. Greeley, who writes that he never wanted to be anything but a parish priest, has posted his weekly homilies on his website. They are an excellent example of what he is trying to convey here.

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

How does the attendance at fine arts activities by Catholics compare to Jewish attendance? Is ther a regional factor here? Is there a lavish lifestyle factor? Is there a truth factor here- beauty is so close to truth. There are so many questions.
Your question Steffan---------Did Catholics throw the last election to Bush?
The hierarchy did over the period of time before the election. Democrats and the 'bleeding''Sacred' Heart liberals parted ways and both Catholics and Democrats left the working class out of the equation. The hierarchy sat by and allowed the sin of abortion to be the sin of judges and politicians instead of individuals [maybe the courts could do the work of the bishops for them]
The history of the church is swamped in art,music,poetry and writings [Perhaps Mr Cahill could write a book on 'How the church saved civilization'] It is the truth that is expressed that is the magnet but unfortunately the arts are now the realm of the wealthy. These things belong to the churches more than to museums.
I can again ask for the church to bring them back where they belong.

On the Grace scale the Jews register significantly ahead, and by region the North rates higher. Democrats and liberals view the world more graciously, and the college educated and those under thirty years old top out the field. Women scored higher than men, also.

Again since this is his passion, Fr. Greeley would most assuredly welcome questions at his e-mail address , ( agreel@aol.com ).

It is central to this whole position that Beauty is the revelation of Truth.

Here is another quotation from , " How to Save the Catholic Church " :

' If the Catholic Church is to be saved, it must rediscover the historic link between its heritage and the fine and lively arts. It must realize that art is not a luxury to human life and religion, but a necessity; it must support and encourage the best of artistic efforts; and it must demand the highest standards of professional craftsmanship. '

' Art is by definition sacramental; it seeks to capture the essence of an experience and share it with others. it flourishes in the pre-conscious - the locale of experience, image and story. It seeks to illumine the good, the true and the beautiful as they are experienced and to share that illumination with others. Art heightens experiences, enriches symbols, generates stories and binds communities together. '

' Thomas Aquinas wrote that life without pleasure becomes impossible he did not suggest that pleasure was an " escape " , but the pragmatist has no more time for exploring the subtle philosophical distinctions of Aquinas than he has for pursuing " entertainment " in the fine or lively arts. At the end of a hard day he barely has the energy to watch the late night news or the movie or M.A.S.H. re-runs after it. '

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

I agree. So, with such an astonishing legacy, why does the worship experience remain drab and uninspiring ? Why are Homilies so flat and lifeless ? Somebody is not doing his job ! All of the resources are there.

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

I am often puzzled by the description of worship as drab or uninspiring, or whatever negative is said. I find the liturgy simple and direct in its usual form, and I am mostly okay with it, if there is good music and singing and a decent homily, yes. I usually get something from the homily at most masses, although I certainly recognize the skill, or not, of the homilist. But I know that I also care about the person giving it. A priest with a virtually perfect homily who fails dramatically to live it is more a problem to me than a flat homily, so I will actually exchange the great homilist for the humble gracious priest without such a way with words. I may not be the norm on that one, I know, but that is what I really care about, since I've sure heard lots of homilies, could write a few myself at this point, and have a general sense of what the church wants me to think about most of the time. I recognize that if I add these standards to the idea of a creative liturgy, it's probably too much to ask of most parishes most of the time. It always has been, with the low mass interspersed with the occasional high mass in the old days. There is a rhythm with a certain simplicity that I do like. Then again...

...I say this and of course all the superb moments of liturgy come to mind. Interestingly, one of them was a mass at the end of a religious conference several decades ago. The place was full of hundreds of both active and former religious men and women of all stripes, and oh, the music was almost unearthly with its beauty. I had no idea what music could sound like! Obviously those moments make a person wish for more.

I think Andy Greeley taps well into our imagination, and reminds of something that we should not want to lose--our collective catholic culture. Unfortunately, these days, it seems that those who most want to put a catholic culture back together are those who are not basing it on religious imagination but on something of the opposite--dogmatic, absolutist, and fixed. Not the same thing.

I think it has been so difficult at times to come to terms with public worship in such a conflictual time that the simple mass may simply be very necessary also. sorta like a least common denominator, is that the right term? I think we've agreed to be simple and direct, with some basic hymns that people can sorta sing, and...you know, I just don't find homilies flat and lifeless very often. I just don't know what that means. Can you explain more what you are looking for?

The first rule of public speaking is to know your audience. A monotone, detached and impersonal delivery is insulting. You most likely would never do this to guests in your home. Here is another passage from the Greeleys' book that addresses what he has named the Authoritarian Pragamatist approach to church administration :

' One could for the sake of argument, challenge the pragmatist on his own grounds. Demonstrably, the most important creative thing a priest does is his Sunday sermon. Yet the Sunday sermon is above all the work of the creative imagination, a work that stirs up images, recalls experiences, links stories of individual experiences to stories of the overarching experiences of the tradition. The creative imagination is developed both by contact with works of art and by practice in exercising one's own. Therefore it is important that the homilist and the future homilist receive intensive and systematic training in the works of the imagination and the development of their own imaginations.
That only slightly complex syllogism is probably unanswerable, but most seminary rectors will cheerfully admit that the homiletics course is the poorest in the seminary and most homiletics professors would be hard put to see the connection between the creative imagination and Sunday homilizing. The suggestion that one of us made a number of years ago, not altogether facetiously, that no one should be ordained who hadn't written a novel or a dozen sonnets or four short stories was dismissed by homiletics professors and seminary rectors as absurd. Preaching, they say in effect, is not a work of creative imagination, and it is hardly necessary to be concerned about the development of the creative imagination of priests and future priests. '

' One is forced to make the candid admission that it is practically impossible to think of a decent painting, sculpture, building, musical composition, dance, story, film, song, or television program that has been made under the auspices of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States in the last half century. It's a long way from Notre Dame de Paris to Notre Dame du Lac and most of that way has been down hill, and an equally long way from Saint Peter's to the Touchdown Jesus. '

' A preacher who understands the correlative nature of preaching is continually listening for new understanding of both the stories of God and the stories of the community. He is constantly searching for new ways to tell both these stories so they will touch the religious imaginations of his listeners. He is never content with the mere repetition of ideas he acquired in his seminary days. He recognizes the importance of the ten minutes he has each Sunday and prepares for them as carefully as any Protestant minister, who might have four times as long to get his or her message across.

Church policymakers should also reconsider the requirement that only the priest preach the homily. At certain times other members of the liturgical community might be well qualified to address a revelatory moment in the community's life. Women, married people, even teenagers can sometimes, if they have the skills, preach a correlative message more effectively than a priest.

Simplicity can be overwhelmingly beautiful, it just takes a little extra effort.

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

But the times (in all the years of homilies) that I have heard a priest speak in "a monotone, [with a] detached and impersonal delivery" has actually been infrequent. Is this really that frequent? While obviously I agree that some priests are more engaging speakers than others (and wish each homily were the great moment...and occasionally I could do a better job), I'm okay most of the time with having one good thought to take with me.

Myself, I don't think I would ordain a man until he could present witnesses of five occasions when he really told a woman he was sorry for something he did, so let me add that to the ordination list. :-)

I agree that a man who cannot relate to women in a healthy way does not belong in the role of parish priest.

Since this is the central event of his vocation, you have a right to demand a first rate effort. Whether you have been conditioned to take what you can get or have been blessed with a generous storyteller the experience of Divine worship is being phoned in by too many of its professional executors. I apologize if I seem to be denigrating the character of otherwise cogenial and engaging people. Mostly they have been left to their own devices, having been cast adrift by their superiors who are tone deaf to the needs of the community. Greeley is really onto something here. No matter how difficult and fruitless it may seem to be, long term dedication to the support of the arts, the presentation of a passionate beauty reflecting the feelings of God for us, is the only true way to " save " the church. Everything else is commentary.

You've really got me thinking about the idea of apologizing to women. In particular, the attitude of taking much for granted and expecting more of the same. You have a right also to expect full respect for value added to the human experience. This might make an excellent thread topic on this site.

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

I think that, while I probably agree with much of what you feel about revving up the liturgy some, I am mostly finally relieved to hear from you more than from Fr. Greeley. I don't really disagree, but wonder how to do this in a time of such conflict over liturgical expression. My other experiences in life suggest to me that it is the time for something pretty simple and somewhere in the middling, to help negotiate tough feelings. Perhaps, as much as I don't like the newest splitting off into tridentine liturgies for some folks, perhaps their leaving for those churches means that there will be some break for those left behind to open up expression more without the complaints and continual contacts with chanceries and even Rome. Perhaps a positive consequence that will give some response to your issue.

My comments on women really go to something else that I've read about and seems to be true for our times...that this being a time where relationships are more to the forefront than institutions, perhaps also a time that it is more important that people do--model--behavior than talk about it. There seems a lot of restlessness in the church to actually see more of the Christian response--don't give me the grand talk in a homily as much as show me your walk...in other words, I want to see and hear about how the priest forgives and is forgiven as much as the grand talk, if that makes sense? I do hear that from a lot of people today, most from people who have heard lots of homilies in their life, obviously, but it seems also true of younger people today. Like that old St. Francis quote he never said I guess, about 'if you need to, use words...'

But I don't know that I actually disagree...I probably do belong on another thread :-)

I chose to quote the text so extensively here because of the resounding clarity. Many of his critics have not even read what they are so opposed to. This is really what I see as the long term solution to the crises in the church. On the ground simplicity in well represented art is a universal salve. When you create an atmosphere for joyful, peaceful encounter everything else comes along. Vatican II radically altered the orientation of the church to its roots. Understanding the Tridentine Mass from its genesis will help to mold a contemporary response to a fuller expression of ritual. We cannot put new wine into an old wineskin, it will burst.

I have chosen to speak little here in order to allow a discussion to emerge where it may, while I found my own voice. Greeley acknowledges the daunting complexity of studying and explaining the Sacramental Imagination. I have found that he is correct about understanding where Catholics are coming from when attempting dialogue with people of other Western faith traditions.

The noisy but tiny minority of ' traditionalists ' shouldn't bother a courageous elite. If they used their rank pulling muscles to force a sustained investment in the generation of a unique and comprehensive campaign to liberate the Catholic gifts inherent in the laity their problems would quickly become more manageable and their lives more rewarding. The Conductor of an orchestra knows exactly how to evoke the best performance from his/her musicians. I have shared personal experiences on other threads along these lines. This topic has had an extraordinarily powerful resonance within me. I was instinctively convinced of this long ago and haven't put the words to it very well. Andrew Greeley has spent his career developing the words for these ideas and has made a profound connection for me. This is the essence of his theory of ' Religion as Poetry ', it is experience and story before and after it is anything and everything else. We must liberate the passion for unity and then artfully direct it instead of clamping it down and locking it away with outrageous rules. The Beauty of well done art is the real presence of the Holy Spirit at work to melt cold hearts and break the bonds of the 'Iron Law of Oligarchy ', followed by a people who have lost their way. ( A law Greeley explains as the tendency of institutions to substitute focus on tradition for the sake of tradition after having lost sight of their original goals and ideals ).

Beauty is not opposed to truth. It is simply truth in its most attractive form.

It is not universally true that the worship experience is inadequate. Perhaps continuing education would help.

Au contraire Marie[only on the education point], There is no story like a true story and when the sermon teller has no real experience of the real, world education from a public speaking point of view does not help. Education that would help might be on the streets,in the jails,in public high schools and in work places.
Ivory tower sermons from Ivory tower academic sermon services are the problem. People need to hear "I understand" more than "you should".They should leave with a feeling of, we [priest and people] have as a community made contact with the power of God.

I don't know about any one else, but all I hear is the "I understand" homilies, and they leave me searching for any meaning in them. We need to be challenged, not merely accepted. We should leave affirmed in the progress we have made, but challenged to do better.

Another factor seems to be acting ability. Even if the homilist has had life experience, he isn't always able to convey it in a moving way. I don't think I have heard an ivory tower style of sermon other than on television.

We can agree, I hope, that lounge singers and improv comedians are not the acting ability we want on the altar, right? ;-)

I actually agree somewhat with those who blame this particular decline on microphones, as we lost the art of oratory, which has close ties to stage acting. Archbishop Sheen was sort of a 'last great examples'.

BTW, are you familiar with the old progression of study; the Trivium of Grammar, Logic, & Rhetoric (all told the building and delivery of an argument) and the Quadrivium of the "physical sciences": arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy. (Philosophy was only to be undertaken by those who had mastered the above, and theology only by those who mastered philosophy) The loss of the first three is apparent in our society from political or religious debates to ordinary discussions. Controlling the mob has replaced actual debate.

No lounge singers and improv comedians.

My favorite kind of homily puts all three readings into historical context, points out the connection that is intended by those who have selected this combination of readings, and then sets it into some kind of present day typical personal experience. I have noticed that my fellow parishioners particularly like being moved to tears, though I don't. They are especially fond of homilies emphasizing God's unconditional love and ready forgiveness even though from my perspective they show no evidence of lacking a sense of the former or requiring much of the latter. On the other hand, one of the most memorable sermons I have ever heard was given by a man who was still studying to become a Lutheran pastor, in which he took on the identity of Barabas and conveyed all of what I like in a homily without being pedantic.

It would certainly help our society if people were at least aware of their shortcomings in grammar, logic, and rhetoric even if they were unable to master these subjects. They need to become a bit more skeptical about what they hear in order to prevent themselves from being so easily swayed by their emotional responses.

Another quote from , " How to Save the Catholic Church " :

' In a clerical culture in which disciplined intellect is of minor moment, one can scarcely expect developed imagination or disciplined creativity to be important. One does not need to be able to think or to judge, to imagine or to create. One merely needs a few quick sentences to summarize the latest fashion, the newest program book for the most recent surefire technique. If someone like our friend and colleague John Shea writes a book about the theology of story, one will either make up stories as part of the new program or buy a program book with pre-packaged stories. Anyone can tell stories can't they ? You're not claiming, are you, that someone has to experience a fundamental restructuring of their personality, redevelop their imagination, and acquire new skills and disciplines just to tell stories ? '

' The Catholic religious sensibility survives despite the clergy, of course, because after a couple of millenia it is too durable and too attractive to be destroyed by moralism and pragmatism and romanticism - and stupidity. Its revitalizations occur not because the bishops understand them or the priests and religious want them, but because a new generation of laity demands them.
And refuses to pay the bills unless it gets them. '

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

Adequate isn't good enough.

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

Yes, Fr. Greeley states that our heritage is story before it is anything else and after it is everything else. It was oral history for a long time before any attempt at recording it was made, as is obvious in the patchwork quilt of scriptural renderings. The Song of Songs is one of the most apparent forms of overt poetic expression in the subjective encounter with the Divine. Theology and doctrine help to clarify and elucidate the relationship, but the story itself is most important. The Evangelical initiative needs to understand the Anthropology behind this to be effective.

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction

If Andrew Greeley were to have his way, every worship experience would in fact be a dramatic encounter with art appreciation. The church would indeed be the fountainhead of Universal Beauty whose place in the community would be obvious.

Here is a passage from the book Fr. Greeley and his sister Mary Greeley Durkin penned entitled , ' How to Save the Catholic Church ' :

' The priest, who as the convener is the "director" of the liturgy, must be an artist who strives to have each player in the drama attuned to what is occurring. Only then can the God who lurks in the coming together of the community make Him/Herself present.
Perhaps part of the reason the post- Vatican II ritual is not more successful than its predecessor ( and at times might not be as successful at reminding people of the mystery of life ) is that too much emphasis is placed on the priest as the image of Christ. When the priest gives an unenthusiastic, monotone recitation of the ritual prayers, no one is inspired to "imagine" Christ as an exciting God-giving presence in our midst. While the celebrant does not have to have the skills of a Shakespearean actor, he certainly must be aware of the need to draw all those present into the story and realize that they, too, are images of Christ. He ( and she, when the Church policymakers realize that "imaging" Christ is a talent not limited to men ) shouldn't have to resort to gimmicks. '

The Beautiful... Acquaints Us With The Mental Event Of Conviction